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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:37 am
 


New evidence of Tory offer to MP

By Steve Rennie, THE CANADIAN PRESS




OTTAWA - The voice of a cancer-stricken MP who died months after a historic confidence vote came back to haunt the Conservatives on Friday after a three-year-old radio interview surfaced in which Chuck Cadman says party officials made him financial overtures.

In a June 12, 2005, interview on Vancouver radio station CKNW, Cadman said the Tories did, in fact, make him financial offers days before the crucial vote.

"There was certainly some, you know, some offers made and some things along those lines about not opposing me and helping out with the finances of the campaign and that sort of thing. But, again, you know, that's all part of the deal that goes on. It's what happens, especially in a minority situation," Cadman says.

The interview lent credence to claims from Cadman's family that the terminally ill Independent MP - on whose shoulders rested the fate of Paul Martin's Liberal government - told them Tory officials allegedly offered him a $1-million life insurance policy in exchange for his support.

Cadman's widow, Dona - a Conservative candidate - said her husband was livid at the alleged offer, which she said she considered a bribe.

Cadman's daughter, Jodi, also said her late father made a deathbed admission about the alleged $1-million life insurance policy offer and other enticements.



And on Friday afternoon, Holland Miller, Cadman's son-in-law, told CKNW the late MP told him about the alleged Conservative life insurance offer when he returned to British Columbia after the vote.

At the centre of the swirling controversy is a tape released Thursday suggesting then-Opposition leader Stephen Harper not only knew two party officials allegedly made an "offer" to Cadman, but also gave it his blessing.

Author Tom Zytaruk taped an interview with Harper in September 2005 for his soon-to-be-released biography of Cadman. On the scratchy 2:37 recording, Harper confirms party officials made a financial appeal to Cadman.

"The offer to Chuck was that it was only to replace financial considerations he might lose due to an election," Harper says.

Harper said while he wasn't optimistic about their chances of persuading Cadman - a former Tory MP who had left the party to sit as an Independent MP - to vote with the Conservatives to bring down Martin's government, he urged two people "legitimately representing the party" to tread cautiously.

"I said 'Don't press him, I mean, you have this theory that it's, you know, financial insecurity, and you know, just, you know, if that's what you're saying make that case,' but I said, 'Don't press it'."

Not clear is what exactly the Conservative insiders offered Cadman. The Tories insist that Doug Finley and Harper mentor Tom Flanagan only offered to take Cadman back into the party fold.

Asked what financial considerations Harper was talking about on the tape, and what case did he tell the party emissaries to make, the prime minister's communications director ducked the questions.

In an e-mail to The Canadian Press, Sandra Buckler said the tape - which the publisher of the book was selling for $500 a copy - is an excerpt of a longer interview between the prime minister and Zytaruk.

"We are deeply concerned that an edited excerpt of a taped conversation between Mr. Harper and the book's author is being bootlegged for five hundred bucks a pop by the author. We call on the author to provide Canadians with a complete, unedited audio copy of the author's conversation - from start to finish - with Mr. Harper."

Buckler did not reply to a second e-mail asking her to respond to the two original questions.

That left Tory MP James Moore to fend off questions from opposition MPs and reporters outside the House of Commons. He dodged questions about whether the offer was indeed for a life insurance policy or for the Conservative nomination in the B.C. riding of Surrey North.

"I haven't spoken to Dona or Jodi Cadman. But (what) I do know is that neither of them were in the meeting," he said outside the Commons.

"Chuck Cadman was in the meeting and Mr. Finley and Mr. Flanagan were in the meeting. All three of them said that no offer was made. Chuck Cadman was very clear about that. And he said that in two nationally televised interviews. And I think it's very clear."

A reporter chased Moore as he retreated to the Commons, repeatedly asking him if the offer was for the nomination or life insurance. He didn't answer.

Asked how the Conservatives could have allegedly obtained life insurance for Cadman - who died of cancer two months later - Liberal MP Mark Holland speculated the party could have paid the cost of the policy.

But insurance experts - including one from Industrial Alliance Insurance and Financial Services, a Quebec firm that insures MPs - say it's next to impossible to find a life insurer to provide a $1-million policy for a terminally ill person.

For the second straight day, opposition parties hammered the Conservatives in the Commons.

Outside the Commons, Liberal MP Garth Turner suggested time is running out for the Tories to come up with a credible explanation for what exactly was offered to Cadman.

"The questions have not gone away, and each day more evidence has come forward that this is a serious issue. So, unless the government refutes that very quickly, or comes out with a statement of clarification, then I think we ought to be thinking about bringing these guys down," he said.

Later Friday, Liberal party officials said talk of an election over the issue is "premature."

Turner's remarks came on the first of seven opposition days between now and March 26, triggering speculation the government could face one or more confidence motions on which it could fall.

The Liberals decided Friday not to put forth a confidence motion. But the NDP says it's highly likely they'll use their opposition day next Friday - March 7 - on a confidence matter.

If a no-confidence motion passes, Harper would have no choice but to go to Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean and ask her to dissolve Parliament.

Liberal MPs including Turner - publicly hawkish for an election - and Holland said the party would mull over its options before deciding whether to pull the plug on the Conservative government.

Meanwhile, Liberal MP Paul Szabo - chair of the Commons ethics committee probing the Brian Mulroney-Karlheinz Schreiber affair - said all three opposition parties put forward motions for the committee to investigate what he called the "Chuck Cadman bribery scandal."

Szabo said the committee will deal with those motions on Tuesday.

The RCMP also reiterated Friday they are examining a Liberal party claim that the incident violates Criminal Code provisions on bribery and corruption.


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008 ... 70-cp.html


how does that add any proof that he was offered an insurance policy that industry experts say would be next to impossible to ever get . he does not in that interview say he was offered one or that the offer from cpc was illegal .
this is geting rediclous its time the conservatives get a lawyer and sue this author of this book .


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:57 am
 


http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/308444

$1:
Cadman's daughter wanted to go public

VANCOUVER–Chuck Cadman's daughter Jodi says she wanted to go public with the information that Conservative party officials made an offer of life insurance for the terminally ill MP.

Jodi Cadman said yesterday that right after her father, who sat as an independent MP, sided with the Liberals on a crucial confidence motion in May 2005, he was criticized by opponents who suggested he must have been bribed.

"For me to have that knowledge and not scream up and down the street was hard. But my father didn't want me to say anything," Cadman said. "People were saying he must have been bought out by the Liberals when, knowing what I did, in fact that there was an element of the opposite."

Cadman, the mother of a 2-year-old girl, said she went to visit her father a couple of days after he returned to his home in Surrey, B.C., from Ottawa, where, voting on a budget motion, he had stood, hands crossed in front of him, and cast the vote that enabled the Liberals to stay in power.

Cadman said her father was so ill that he was bedridden the day after he returned home from Ottawa, a fact that few people outside of the family knew. Because he had been so stoic at the time of the vote, Cadman said many outsiders assumed her dad was getting better.

Cadman said she knew it was serious when her father confided to her during a conversation in his bedroom that he had a face-to-face meeting with two Conservative representatives before the vote.

She said he told her he had been offered a million-dollar life insurance policy, if he had voted with the Tories on the motion.

"To me, it really crossed the line. The only possible way they could have swayed him was to go after the family in a sense, to have them taken care of," said Cadman. "My first reaction was I was hurt, very hurt, and I started crying."

She said she is proud that he turned down the offer. "If there was an Achilles heel for him, it was complete selflessness," she said. "They knew that, and for the longest time it was incredibly difficult for me not to grit my teeth when I heard the word Conservatives."

Chuck Cadman, who died in July 2005, had gone into politics as an advocate for tougher sentences for young offenders after his son Jesse, 16, was killed in a random street attack by a group of teenagers in 1992.

Tom Zytaruk, a journalist who first met Chuck Cadman while covering Jesse's funeral, wrote that Cadman's wife, Dona, told him about the life insurance offer.

Jodi Cadman said her mother was surprised at the furor raised by her revelations.

"She's probably a bit more naive than I am." As for why her father didn't go public about the issue, Cadman said he was tired and knew the controversy that would result.

"It was the end of his life. He would not have had the strength or energy to deal with this," she said. "He knew what the truth was, the people close to him knew the truth, and for him, that was enough."


It is quite obvious to everybody why he did not go public with this information.

He died just 2 months after this and was bed-ridden right after the vote.

He didn't want to spend his remaining days at the centre of a media storm.

Ryan, you keep saying that everybody who supports your point of view isn't lying but everybody who doesn't is.

The man confided in his wife and daughter. He told them the truth that he didn't say in public. That is exactly what almost any human being would have done.

You say that Donna is lying? A conservative MP who has nonthing but grief to gain by telling the truth and Harper who has every reason in the world to lie.

:roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:06 pm
 


Just looking at todays editorials shows this isn't going anywhere. All the political editorials that mention the Cadman-gate affair could be summed up as "WTF". It's just to contradictitory and questionable for the media and press to get behind.
A PM using his influence to get a loan for a hotel in Quebec is easy.
A party giving contracts to people who send the money back as a political donation is easy to understand.
An MP crossing the floor and immediately gertting a cabinet post is a cut & dry violation of the rules.

This is confusing and there are no smoking guns. If the Libs planned this to be a huge CPC-killer, they definately didn't do their homework.

The only real result might be me voting NDP instead of electing a questionable Donna Cadman who may end up becomming a Liberal cabinet minister.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:21 pm
 


ridenrain ridenrain:
Just looking at todays editorials shows this isn't going anywhere. All the political editorials that mention the Cadman-gate affair could be summed up as "WTF". It's just to contradictitory and questionable for the media and press to get behind.
A PM using his influence to get a loan for a hotel in Quebec is easy.
A party giving contracts to people who send the money back as a political donation is easy to understand.
An MP crossing the floor and immediately gertting a cabinet post is a cut & dry violation of the rules.

This is confusing and there are no smoking guns. If the Libs planned this to be a huge CPC-killer, they definately didn't do their homework.

The only real result might be me voting NDP instead of electing a questionable Donna Cadman who may end up becomming a Liberal cabinet minister.
I believe that bribery to obtain a vote from a public official is a criminal offence. Correct me if I am wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:28 pm
 


Yes it is, but offering to pay campaign costs for a prospective candidate is not. It's even more difficult when no proof exists.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:39 pm
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/308444

$1:
Cadman's daughter wanted to go public

VANCOUVER–Chuck Cadman's daughter Jodi says she wanted to go public with the information that Conservative party officials made an offer of life insurance for the terminally ill MP.

Jodi Cadman said yesterday that right after her father, who sat as an independent MP, sided with the Liberals on a crucial confidence motion in May 2005, he was criticized by opponents who suggested he must have been bribed.

"For me to have that knowledge and not scream up and down the street was hard. But my father didn't want me to say anything," Cadman said. "People were saying he must have been bought out by the Liberals when, knowing what I did, in fact that there was an element of the opposite."

Cadman, the mother of a 2-year-old girl, said she went to visit her father a couple of days after he returned to his home in Surrey, B.C., from Ottawa, where, voting on a budget motion, he had stood, hands crossed in front of him, and cast the vote that enabled the Liberals to stay in power.

Cadman said her father was so ill that he was bedridden the day after he returned home from Ottawa, a fact that few people outside of the family knew. Because he had been so stoic at the time of the vote, Cadman said many outsiders assumed her dad was getting better.

Cadman said she knew it was serious when her father confided to her during a conversation in his bedroom that he had a face-to-face meeting with two Conservative representatives before the vote.

She said he told her he had been offered a million-dollar life insurance policy, if he had voted with the Tories on the motion.

"To me, it really crossed the line. The only possible way they could have swayed him was to go after the family in a sense, to have them taken care of," said Cadman. "My first reaction was I was hurt, very hurt, and I started crying."

She said she is proud that he turned down the offer. "If there was an Achilles heel for him, it was complete selflessness," she said. "They knew that, and for the longest time it was incredibly difficult for me not to grit my teeth when I heard the word Conservatives."

Chuck Cadman, who died in July 2005, had gone into politics as an advocate for tougher sentences for young offenders after his son Jesse, 16, was killed in a random street attack by a group of teenagers in 1992.

Tom Zytaruk, a journalist who first met Chuck Cadman while covering Jesse's funeral, wrote that Cadman's wife, Dona, told him about the life insurance offer.

Jodi Cadman said her mother was surprised at the furor raised by her revelations.

"She's probably a bit more naive than I am." As for why her father didn't go public about the issue, Cadman said he was tired and knew the controversy that would result.

"It was the end of his life. He would not have had the strength or energy to deal with this," she said. "He knew what the truth was, the people close to him knew the truth, and for him, that was enough."


It is quite obvious to everybody why he did not go public with this information.

He died just 2 months after this and was bed-ridden right after the vote.

He didn't want to spend his remaining days at the centre of a media storm.

Ryan, you keep saying that everybody who supports your point of view isn't lying but everybody who doesn't is.

The man confided in his wife and daughter. He told them the truth that he didn't say in public. That is exactly what almost any human being would have done.

You say that Donna is lying? A conservative MP who has nonthing but grief to gain by telling the truth and Harper who has every reason in the world to lie.

:roll:



well this death bed talk might sound interesting and juicy it does not add up to actual evidence or the kind of thing a judge would take seriously .

its allready been pointed out that it would be next to impossible to get the type of insurance they claim he was offered . they have not shown any copy of such a policy of proof one ever existed . its all talk and claims , they have no proof and no company has said they were prepared to give him a 1 million dolar policy because the cpc asked them to .
mean what company in there right mind would give out such a policy it would be like throwing away a million dollars , it just makes no sense and does not sound believeable at all .

and add to that paul martin writes the introuduction to this book , mean if that isn't a red flag i don't know what is .





PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:46 pm
 


Terminally ill `uninsurable' for $1 million, experts say


Mar 01, 2008 04:30 AM
Brenda Bouw
THE CANADIAN PRESS

VANCOUVER–Finding a life insurer to give you a $1 million policy when you are terminally ill is next to impossible, insurance experts say.

But the claim that just such a policy was offered to MP Chuck Cadman in 2005 as he was dying of skin cancer and the government of the day was teetering on the brink of defeat has rocked Ottawa.

"If you are terminally ill, you are uninsurable (for $1 million)," said Ken Hunter, a partner with Toronto-based Hunter McCorquodale Inc., which offers life insurance for "hard to insure" clients.

"In theory, there is a price you could charge, but the reality is the price would be more than $1 million. If I'm the insurer, I need more than $1 million to cover the cost of doing business."

While there are some companies that will sell policies to clients without a medical exam, Hunter said the benefits would never reach $1 million.

"I can't conceive of why anybody would suggest that might be possible," Hunter said.

Wendy Hope, a spokesperson at the Ottawa-based Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association, said insuring a terminally ill patient would be "highly unusual, if not impossible."

"When you apply for insurance you are required to provide accurate and complete information on the application, which typically includes a health questionnaire. The purpose of insurance is to mitigate against risk of an unanticipated tragic event ... to provide financial security to your beneficiaries," said Hope.

"On that basis, any individual who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness wouldn't qualify."


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:50 pm
 


ridenrain ridenrain:
Just looking at todays editorials shows this isn't going anywhere. All the political editorials that mention the Cadman-gate affair could be summed up as "WTF". It's just to contradictitory and questionable for the media and press to get behind.
A PM using his influence to get a loan for a hotel in Quebec is easy.
A party giving contracts to people who send the money back as a political donation is easy to understand.
An MP crossing the floor and immediately gertting a cabinet post is a cut & dry violation of the rules.

This is confusing and there are no smoking guns. If the Libs planned this to be a huge CPC-killer, they definately didn't do their homework.

The only real result might be me voting NDP instead of electing a questionable Donna Cadman who may end up becomming a Liberal cabinet minister.


agree this is very confusing situation and its not clear who is one what side yet . its unclear if the cadman family is on the side of the conservatives , mean the claim of a death bed talk has not helped things . if they were trying to help they wouldn't have said such things. and donna being the cpc candidate just makes thing more uncertain .

but they have not proved there case at all , is little or no evidence anything wrong ever occured , cadman is on video saying nothing illegal was offered to him . and with him not around i don't see how they can ever really find the truth to this whole thing. an inquiry is not going to find much since the main person involved can't testify since he isn't alive. very odd situation , not sure what will be its end or conclusion.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:10 pm
 


fifeboy fifeboy:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Just looking at todays editorials shows this isn't going anywhere. All the political editorials that mention the Cadman-gate affair could be summed up as "WTF". It's just to contradictitory and questionable for the media and press to get behind.
A PM using his influence to get a loan for a hotel in Quebec is easy.
A party giving contracts to people who send the money back as a political donation is easy to understand.
An MP crossing the floor and immediately gertting a cabinet post is a cut & dry violation of the rules.

This is confusing and there are no smoking guns. If the Libs planned this to be a huge CPC-killer, they definately didn't do their homework.

The only real result might be me voting NDP instead of electing a questionable Donna Cadman who may end up becomming a Liberal cabinet minister.
I believe that bribery to obtain a vote from a public official is a criminal offence. Correct me if I am wrong.



well it is a criminal offense ( bribe ) but it depends what was offered , its not illegal to ask someone to join the party .
but as always it has to be proven in court , i seriously wonder how they plan on proving this one as chuck cadman is not here anymore. and they have very little if any hard evidence or a copy of this insurance policy they claim he was offered , that the experts say in not possible to even get.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:13 pm
 


The'll use the same proven method they use for the Human Rights Tribunals and the Mulroney Trial:

[web]http://www2.funnyordie.com/tmbs/e4aaaa4431/medium_3.jpg[/web]


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:31 pm
 


ryan29 ryan29:


and add to that paul martin writes the introuduction to this book , mean if that isn't a red flag i don't know what is .



Good point. A Paul Martin endorsement for a book should be viewed as about as favourably as Jean Chretien co-signing someone's bank loan.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:39 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
ryan29 ryan29:


and add to that paul martin writes the introuduction to this book , mean if that isn't a red flag i don't know what is .



Good point. A Paul Martin endorsement for a book should be viewed as about as favourably as Jean Chretien co-signing someone's bank loan.


:D lol.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:43 pm
 


ridenrain ridenrain:
Thanos Thanos:
ryan29 ryan29:


and add to that paul martin writes the introuduction to this book , mean if that isn't a red flag i don't know what is .



Good point. A Paul Martin endorsement for a book should be viewed as about as favourably as Jean Chretien co-signing someone's bank loan.


:D lol.


Yeah, my comment was cheap but at least it wasn't small-town cheap.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:57 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Thanos Thanos:
ryan29 ryan29:


and add to that paul martin writes the introuduction to this book , mean if that isn't a red flag i don't know what is .



Good point. A Paul Martin endorsement for a book should be viewed as about as favourably as Jean Chretien co-signing someone's bank loan.


:D lol.


Yeah, my comment was cheap but at least it wasn't small-town cheap.


Come on.. that took balls:
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:11 pm
 


You know, even this death bed confession thing sounds a bit convoluted. If you're dying and you have your family gathered around I highly doubt you're going to break into some crap over how you were offered a bribe. This whole thing sounds pretty screwed up.


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