[EyeBrock]

Then pay your way Quebec.

[MacDonaill]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's just more of the same.

One 'special interest' rule for the Quebecois and Natives, another less 'special' set of rules for the rest of us.

It seems to be the Canadian way. The Quebecois and Natives can do what they want and no politician, Liberal or Tory, has the balls to stand up to either of them.

This is in no way a set of special rules for the Québécois.

How Québec decides to organise its own education system is its own business. Education is an entirely provincial responsibility, and thus this bill, if it should see the light of day, is part of Québec's internal affairs.

If the bill is challenged and deemed unconstitutional, it will be struck down by a federal court, and that's pretty much all the federal government can have to do with it. The same is true for every other province. There are no special considerations.

Isn't everything in Quebec an entirely provincial responsibility?

Quebec Immigration wasn't part of the BNA but Quebec gets to say who it lets in.

The Fete National, the so-called 'National Assembly'. All very 'provincial' even if it does sound like you guys are pretending to be a country.

Everything is a provincial responsibilty in Quebec except maybe paying it's bills.

The rest of Canada does give $16.6 billion a year to free Quebec from it's fiscal reponsibilities.

Vive la Quebec Libre.

First of all, it's le Québec, not 'la'.

Quebec was the first province to gain permission to pick and choose it's own immigrants, but that is now an option for any province, and most of them now have a provincial nominee programme in place.

The comments about the Fête nationale and the Assemblée nationale don't really have anything to do with the subject at hand. Every other province has the right to do the same thing, and if they were populated majoritarily by a people who considered itself a nation (in the sociological sense), they would do it.

I don't understand your indignation at this. It literally is none of your business what Quebec calls its provincial parliament; it's entirely insignificant. Canada is not a unitary state and never has been. I don't see you bitching about people in the UK belonging to different nations. Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland are nations, but they are also part of a the UK, which itself is a sort of nation.

As for your 16 billion dollars per year remark, I call bullshit.

This year, the entire equalisation budget isn't even 16 billion dollars, it's just over 14 billion (over half of which will go to Quebec).

While Quebec does receive equalisation payments, it is not the only province to do so. Until this fiscal year, Ontario was the only province to have never received any, and now even that has changed.

For the record, I am a very harsh critic of Quebec in these matters, but I don't often get the chance to express those criticisms because I am constantly forced to waste time addressing the same STUPID, superficial, downright ignorant remarks made by people in English Canada who don't know the first thing about Quebec other than that they don't like it.

[EyeBrock]

Ooh, pardon my French!

I got the $16.6 figure here. Ooopps my mistake its only $5.6 billion, a bargain then!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/map ... rpayments/

You are sooo testy when you try and tell us peons outside of Quebec how we should appreciate Quebec. Chill mate, reach into the Gaelic past.

[MacDonaill]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Then pay your way Quebec.

Your fiscal argument is flawed not only by incorrect statistics, but by an obvious and obnoxious pettiness toward a province and people that you have just plainly decided to first not like, and then afterwards to fish for legitimate reasons why.

You weren't nailing Newfoundland to a cross back when it was on equalisation. You don't recriminate Ontario or Nova Scotia for it either. Only Quebec, because for you it serves to justify your already well-established prejudice against it.

[MacDonaill]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Chill mate, reach into the Gaelic past.

I completely have no idea what you mean. Which Gaelic past would you be referring to?

Too bad we can't talk about a Gaelic future, since those languages have been all but wiped out.

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam.

[EyeBrock]

Well, the Newfies, they actually voted to become part of Canada in 1949 and we kinda raped the only resources they had.
I lived there for 3 years and I respect them as a distinct culture.
They fought side by side with Canada and the UK, they espouse their identity as both Newfie and Canadian.

Quebec. I'm just going off personal experiences, history, knowledge of government, politics, the message you guys put out.

Quebec 'tolerates' Canada as long as we give them $6 billion a year and pander to their whims.
And however much we pander, you will still complain.
From your license plates pronouncing 'WE WILL REMEMBER' (compare that to 'Friendly Manitoba' or 'Discover Ontario') to the "National" labels you throw on everything, you are reaping what you sow.

You want to be different, sure. But why should we pay for it?

[EyeBrock]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Chill mate, reach into the Gaelic past.

I completely have no idea what you mean. Which Gaelic past would you be referring to?

Too bad we can't talk about a Gaelic future, since those languages have been all but wiped out.

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam.

You don't have to speak the language to feel the thousands of years of Celtic and Gaelic ancestry.

Me, Ma spoke Gaelic Dad didn’t. I can still jig like a bastard.

[MacDonaill]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, the Newfies, they actually voted to become part of Canada in 1949 and we kinda raped the only resources they had.
I lived there for 3 years and I respect them as a distinct culture.
They fought side by side with Canada and the UK, they espouse their identity as both Newfie and Canadian.

Not all of them. There are Newfoundland separatists, and you can expect there to be more of them as Newfoundland becomes more financially independent.

$1:

Quebec. I'm just going off personal experiences, history, knowledge of government, politics, the message you guys put out.

I see you often showing an immense lack of knowledge of government when you seem to pretend that Canada is some sort of unitary state. It is a federation of largely autonomous provinces. One of those provinces happens to have a different language than the rest and hence a radically different culture. It is for this reason that, naturally, things in Quebec are done differently and people in Quebec question their place in a federation dominated by people who, up until only about fifty or sixty years ago, unabashedly voiced their indignation and hatred for them along with their wish to see them assimilated.

Canada has only been a 'nice' country for a relatively short while. So you'll have to forgive some people for not buying into it just yet.

$1:

Quebec 'tolerates' Canada as long as we give them $6 billion a year and pander to their whims.

They also pay into the system quite heavily. Over 20 billion dollars in federal income taxes were collected from Quebec citizens and businesses in 2007, and that does not even include GST collected in Quebec etc.

Equalisation is not about paying off provinces to keep them happy. It's about making sure the fiscal capacity of each individual province is equal to that of the average fiscal capacity of all provinces. Quebec would receive the same amount of money even if it were Anglophone.

$1:

From your license plates pronouncing 'WE WILL REMEMBER' (compare that to 'Friendly Manitoba' or 'Discover Ontario') to the "National" labels you throw on everything, you are reaping what you sow.

It is not 'we will remember', it is 'I remember' (Je me souviens). And you immediately assign it an anti-English meaning even though nobody in Quebec is really sure what it is supposed to mean. It's just a motto and it has been since 1883. Make of it what you will, but it has nothing to do with Quebec nationalism in its modern incarnation.

[EyeBrock]

You guys have been been part of this country since you lost out in the Treaty of Paris in 1763.

But you would never know from all the bile you push out.
Oh, and tell me the positive spin of 'I remember'.

Sounds like a score to be settled and it's on EVERY licence plate out of Quebec.

I still prefer 'Friendly Manitoba' over 'I remember'. Remember what?

Oh and despite taxes payed, you still got $5.6 Billion more given to you by Canada than you earned. Simple stats me 'old.

[PluggyRug]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

As for your 16 billion dollars per year remark, I call bullshit.

When I first arrived in Canada I heard this annoying sucking sound. Upon asking someone, He said "don't worry thats only Quebec".

[travior]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

The comments about the Fête nationale and the Assemblée nationale don't really have anything to do with the subject at hand. Every other province has the right to do the same thing, and if they were populated majoritarily by a people who considered itself a nation (in the sociological sense), they would do it.

May-hapse they don't choose to do it because they already feel as though they are part of a region that considers itself a nation? That nation just might be called Canada.

[MacDonaill]

travior travior:

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

The comments about the Fête nationale and the Assemblée nationale don't really have anything to do with the subject at hand. Every other province has the right to do the same thing, and if they were populated majoritarily by a people who considered itself a nation (in the sociological sense), they would do it.

May-hapse they don't choose to do it because they already feel as though they are part of a region that considers itself a nation? That nation just might be called Canada.

Precisely! Those regions just so happen to be populated by a heavy Anglo-Celtic majority. It's natural that they should feel that sort of kinship.

It's also completely natural for Quebeckers to not see themselves as a part of that Anglo-Celtic majority, seeing as how they are French. Do you really expect Quebec and the ROC to see eye to eye on as many subjects as, say Ontario and Manitoba - two provinces populated by the same dominant ethnic group?

I really wish English-Canadians who whine about Quebec would get a grip. They talk endless bullshit about Quebec not being over the Plains of Abraham, but on the same note, English Canada cannot get over the fact that they actually have to be EQUALS with those goddamn Frogs who used to call them 'boss', and that the government actually has to be able to speak FRENCH! Oh, the horror!

What the fuck do any of you even care what language Government of Canada speaks? Most English Canadians don't even vote, know little about and pay little attention to Canadian politics and are more interested in watching the health care debate in the US or the latest episode of (insert dumb fucking American television show) than they are about Canadian policy, history etc. (Note that none of this is the case in Quebec, where the situation is the exact opposite.)

Quebec is a federated state in a multi-ethnic, multi-national country called Canada. Canada is not a nation in the sense of a unitary state governing a single unified people (like Sweden). It is not and never has been. It is a federation of largely autonomous provinces which cooperate as they see fit in various ways and to varying degrees in accordance with a constitution not only with one another, but with the federal government. Quebec often chooses to opt out of certain programmes, that is its right to do so.

The 'do how we do or leave' attitude is childish, clannish and, for a federation, unrealistic.

[EyeBrock]

This is one of those debates where both sides believe that their point of view is the right one.

You believe that Quebec is a mis-understood province that pays it’s way.

I believe Quebec pretends it’s a country and wants’ us to pay for that ersatz-nationhood.

When Quebec stops pretending it’s the Peoples Republic of New France and takes part in the Canadian federation of provinces, I’ll change my views.

And despite what you and your 'Little Frenchies' think, Canada is a country.

Make all the verbose labels on your view of nationhood that you can think up and quote me a few of your separatist student debates too, although they are very boring (too much lecturing for me).
It won't change the fact that you guys don't want to be part of Canada but do want the benefits.


When I ever met Canadians overseas they didn’t say “I’m an Albertan” or “I’m a New Brunswicker.”
They said they were “Canadian.” I also met a few people from Quebec who said they were ‘Quebecois’ or ‘Quebeckers’ though.
Quebec first. In every other province Canada comes first. That about sums it up.

You guys just think you are a distinct society in a country that pays your bills and leaves you alone. The rest of us see you as reluctant Canadians not willing to work with the rest of us.

You guys just are not part of the Canadian team.

Oh and on the licence plate, we maybe don't plaster ominous lines as "I remember" like your pretend country does, but we do remember.

[MacDonaill]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

This is one of those debates where both sides believe that their point of view is the right one.

You believe that Quebec is a mis-understood province that pays it’s way.

I believe Quebec pretends it’s a country and wants’ us to pay for that ersatz-nationhood.

When Quebec stops pretending it’s the Peoples Republic of New France and takes part in the Canadian federation of provinces, I’ll change my views.

How does Quebec not take part in the confederation? It pays taxes, has citizens in the military losing lives and legs in Afghanistan, has politicians in Ottawa, many of which have led the country (and done more for it than any others). Quebec HANDED the rest of the country ALL of its national symbols, including the national anthem. Quebec politicians in Ottawa were responsible for the repatriation of the Constitution from your country.

Quebec has not only played its part in the Canadian federation, but it has played a bigger part than any other province.

$1:

And despite what you and your 'Little Frenchies' think, Canada is a country.

When have I said anything to the contrary. I know Canada is a real country, but it is NOT a unitary state governing a sing, united people and it never has been.

I am extremely proud to be a Canadian, and I am very patriotic. I also understand Canada at a level you never will, because I am part of both founding linguistic communities. You are nothing but an old British fart who
takes this country for some kind of extension of his old one. I think you immigrated to Canada about 40 years too late, mate. Canada has TWO founding nations : the English AND the French. Clearly, you're only concerned with one of them.

$1:

Make all the verbose labels on your view of nationhood that you can think up and quote me a few of your separatist student debates too, although they are very boring (too much lecturing for me).
It won't change the fact that you guys don't want to be part of Canada but do want the benefits.

If Quebec didn't want to be part of Canada, it wouldn't be. The fact is, and the stats support this, that the majority of Quebeckers want to stay in Canada. It doesn't mean they all have to start wearing maple leaf underwear and singing O Canada. They are not and will never be Canadian in the same way that English Canadians are. It is the same in every multi-national country (Belgium, Switzerland, Spain, Italy etc...) There were always be people in such countries who identify more with their region than with the collectivity of regions. It's natural; deal with it.

$1:

When I ever met Canadians overseas they didn’t say “I’m an Albertan” or “I’m a New Brunswicker.” They said they were “Canadian.” I also met a few people from Quebec who said they were ‘Quebecois’ or ‘Quebeckers’ though.

So what? Most Quebeckers end up having to say they are from Canada anyway, since most non-Canadians don't know what Québécois means.


Quebec first. In every other province Canada comes first. That about sums it up.

Bullshit. Speak for yourself. Newfies are Newfies first and foremost. Albertans have threatened separation over federal interference in the oil industry. There are so many ingrates willing to sell this country out in a heartbeat. It makes me sick because I personally have a Canada first attitude.

$1:

You guys just think you are a distinct society in a country that pays your bills and leaves you alone. The rest of us see you as reluctant Canadians not willing to work with the rest of us.

So quick to speak on behalf of all the ROC. Interesting. Quebec is clearly a distinct society, and that will never change. The sooner you get used to it, the better.

As for cooperation, Quebec fully cooperates with the federal government in those areas of its concern. In those areas where the federal government has no jurisdiction, they don't have to take orders from the feds, so why would they?

$1:

You guys just are not part of the Canadian team.

It's a good thing Quebeckers are part of the Canadian national hockey team, for example, otherwise we'd be fucked!

But I guess you're the guy responsible for picking who is part of the Canadian team and who isn't.

$1:

Oh and on the licence plate, we maybe don't plaster ominous lines as "I remember" like your pretend country does, but we do remember.

You are such a moron. 'I remember' is the first part of a poem written in the late 19th century by a prominent, federalist French-Canadian statesman named Taché, who recognised the democratic contribution the British made to French-Canada. It goes like this: I remember that, born under the lily, I grew under the rose.

And I don't think you remember much of anything, if you ask me. In Ontario, I could walk down the street TODAY and ask everyone I pass who the Prime Minister is and I guarantee that over half of them will not be able to tell me.

[Wada]

"The rest of us" used a couple of times, certainly is offensive or certainly seems so at face value. Perhaps you could define "the rest of us" because at this point you appear to think you represent the feelings of well "the rest of us" and from where I'm at I can definitively state that you don't. Not for me and not for many anglo-Canadian citizens I know personally. I'm not trying to be prickish here but I wish you would bear this in mind when making sweeping and outlandish staements on everyone elses behalf. TIA.