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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:19 am
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Somalia has liberal gun laws and they are swimming in violence. So is any place that has no gun laws.

Allowing rifle and some pistol ownership is one thing. Allowing anybody to own assault weapons is something else. If you gun owner types cannot differentiate the 2 then your cause is lost because we will not allow Canada to become a Somalia because a few small penis individuals think they need to own an automatic rifle to compensate.


Nice strawman you got there.

As I explained in the post above there is no functional difference between an AR-15 and any semi-auto hunting rifle. The only difference are cosmetic and the AR-15 uses a round that has low stopping power, shorter range and poor armour penetration compared to many hunting rounds.

At no point have I or any of the other pro gun proponents suggested that we should be letting anybody have a gun. What I am suggesting is that mentally stable civilians with no criminal record should be able to acquire what ever guns they want. I want civilians to undergo training before getting a firearms license. I want the arbitrary distinction between semi auto assault rifles and other semi automatic firearms. I would like to see weapons be classified as:

-Non-restricted: All non automatic rifles, carbines and shotguns. Can be bought with a firearms license. Semi automatic AR-15s, AK-47, FAMAS etc. will be in this category.
-Restricted (1): All revolvers and semi auto handguns/sub machine guns. Requires a more comprehensive training course. May only be used at a range or for self defense and must be stored securely. Must be registered. Permits to carry will be issued to those who pass a training course dealing with use of a concealed weapon and laws governing self defense and have undergone a psychiatric assessment (at the applicant's expense).
-Restricted (2): All automatics and weapons easily converted to automatic. May only be used at a range. Must be registered. Must be stored securely separate from ammunition with the bolt stored separately and securely. Requires and extremely comprehensive training course with a significant licensing fee. Transfer of the weapon will be heavily taxed.

With this system with each level being progressively harder to obtain it will be hard but not impossible to legal acquire automatic weapons.

Allowing citizens to own guns isn't going to turn Canada into Somalia. Switzerland and Israel both have wide spread civilian gun ownership yet have a homicide rate similar to Canada's.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:35 am
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Somalia has liberal gun laws and they are swimming in violence. So is any place that has no gun laws.

Allowing rifle and some pistol ownership is one thing. Allowing anybody to own assault weapons is something else. If you gun owner types cannot differentiate the 2 then your cause is lost because we will not allow Canada to become a Somalia because a few small penis individuals think they need to own an automatic rifle to compensate.


The argument is lost when one starts calling names to those of a different opinion. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:21 am
 


DeBoom; I am a gun packin, gun buildin, gun collectin type guy.
All of my friends are also.
But being a fella that feels a single shot flint locke 50cal. is
more than enough to hunt with, I disagree with your arguement.
If a person is such a poor shot they need a semi-auto to hunt with? I don't want to be in the field with them.
Hunting is all about developing the skills and savy to locate game. To understand the game you seek. Learnin skills that let you get close enough to use a bow if you choose.
These are wild creatures we pursue. Not war and not murder.
It is called huntin. Not killin.
From one gun guy to another, you are wrong and please never hunt in the USA. Thank You.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:29 am
 


2Cdo 2Cdo:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Somalia has liberal gun laws and they are swimming in violence. So is any place that has no gun laws.

Allowing rifle and some pistol ownership is one thing. Allowing anybody to own assault weapons is something else. If you gun owner types cannot differentiate the 2 then your cause is lost because we will not allow Canada to become a Somalia because a few small penis individuals think they need to own an automatic rifle to compensate.


The argument is lost when one starts calling names to those of a different opinion. :roll:


Chicago, NYC and Washington D.C. have some of the toughest and most gun control laws in the states. AND, they are all swinning in gun violence. Explain that?


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:38 am
 


angler57 angler57:
DeBoom; I am a gun packin, gun buildin, gun collectin type guy.
All of my friends are also.
But being a fella that feels a single shot flint locke 50cal. is
more than enough to hunt with, I disagree with your arguement.
If a person is such a poor shot they need a semi-auto to hunt with? I don't want to be in the field with them.
Hunting is all about developing the skills and savy to locate game. To understand the game you seek. Learnin skills that let you get close enough to use a bow if you choose.
These are wild creatures we pursue. Not war and not murder.
It is called huntin. Not killin.
From one gun guy to another, you are wrong and please never hunt in the USA. Thank You.


You misunderstand my point. My argument isn't that one needs a semi-auto hunt. My argument is that semi-auto assault rifles are no different functionally from a semi-auto hunting rifles that are classified as non-restricted in Canada and therefore it does not make sense to restrict one but not the other. Although I have never hunted should I ever decide to do so I have no intention of simply spraying the area with bullets.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:44 am
 


DeBoom; Sorry we misunderstood you. We do have many reservations concerning semi-auto and auto weapons. If you ever decide to get into serious hunting. Please find someone that uses Black powder. A fun and learning experience. It requires the shooter to be part of the experience. Pulling the trigger on a modern weapon pales in comparsion. When I worked for my uncle fired 30's and 50's auto. only one purpose to use them for.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 8:38 am
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Somalia has liberal gun laws and they are swimming in violence. So is any place that has no gun laws.


The problem in Somalia is that only the criminals have guns. If the politically correct "small penis individuals" like yourself who are irrationally afraid of loud noises would support arming the average person in Somalia you'd see the minority of warlords and etc. give way to something looking like stability.

The exact same problem exists in Mexico where law abiding citizens are not allowed to have guns, yet the criminals are armed with full-automatic weapons they typically obtain from the military and police. Arm the common citizen in Mexico and the criminals and the corrupt authorities will have to give way to the average person.

DerbyX DerbyX:
Allowing rifle and some pistol ownership is one thing. Allowing anybody to own assault weapons is something else. If you gun owner types cannot differentiate the 2 then your cause is lost because we will not allow Canada to become a Somalia because a few small penis individuals think they need to own an automatic rifle to compensate.


When all it takes to ban firearms is to say you want to ban assault weapons and then for some other pantywaist to declare that ALL firearms are assault weapons and then you have a gun ban. Sorry, no.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 8:39 am
 


angler57 angler57:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
DerbyX DerbyX:
Somalia has liberal gun laws and they are swimming in violence. So is any place that has no gun laws.

Allowing rifle and some pistol ownership is one thing. Allowing anybody to own assault weapons is something else. If you gun owner types cannot differentiate the 2 then your cause is lost because we will not allow Canada to become a Somalia because a few small penis individuals think they need to own an automatic rifle to compensate.


The argument is lost when one starts calling names to those of a different opinion. :roll:


Chicago, NYC and Washington D.C. have some of the toughest and most gun control laws in the states. AND, they are all swinning in gun violence. Explain that?


Don't worry, none of the gun-grabbers will ever explain this to you.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:31 pm
 


Canada has more in common with Switzerland that we do with Somalia.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:16 am
 


If these anit-gun people had their way and all guns would disappear instantly?
They would soon be after ROCKS.
Deadly Rocks.
Semi-Deadly Rocks.
Carrying more than one rock would be a felony.
My goodness LARGE Rocks would have to broken into tiny little rocks.
Then of course we have Sticks and on and on.
And tall places!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????????????????????????????????.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:51 am
 


angler57 angler57:
If these anit-gun people had their way and all guns would disappear instantly?
They would soon be after ROCKS.
Deadly Rocks.
Semi-Deadly Rocks.
Carrying more than one rock would be a felony.
My goodness LARGE Rocks would have to broken into tiny little rocks.
Then of course we have Sticks and on and on.
And tall places!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????????????????????????????????.


XD

Alright, score one for the gun nuts...


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:20 am
 


I've been following this topic from page one. The attitude of the 'anti' crowd seems only to apply to objects, items, weapons which they don't want to own, so think that no one else should own either! The point of my 'DVD player' example was to show that anything at all could be used as a deadly weapon, depending on the mindset, and intentions of the person using it! A fully-auto firearm is not 'deadly' until it is in the hands of someone inclined to use it to cause death or injury to others. The same goes for damn near every item that all of us use everyday! I can, and have made a 'working, deadly firearm' out of a pack of matches , and a H2B pencil. So, I guess rather than punishing me so severely for such an action, matches and pencils should be banned!
I don't see any practical use for alcohol now as there exists some other drug or chemical that can better 'address the situation'. In fact, alcohol is the root cause of a majority of societies problems,ie; murder, assault,impaired driving etc. We should all demand that alcohol be banned,rather than making the PUNISHMENT FOR THOSE WHO WOULD MISUSE ALCOHOL extremely severe!
Drugs. Let's just ban all illicit drugs. That will take care of all the 'drug related' problems of society for sure! The 'anti crowd' should definitely get on this right away. No one will ever again get ahold of 'bad drugs' again if they are banned! :roll:

No, I realize that we are talking about weapons here, so what about bows and arrows? They were designed for but one purpose only and that is TO KILL! The fact that a great many people use them responsibly nowadays for hunting and sport is a moot point. It is a real possibility, ( and without having done any research on this), have most likeley been used to injure or kill several people. In fact, in a crowd situation, no sound to zero in on to see where the 'shots' are coming from, thus enabling a persons in the crowd to determine where best to take cover, a skilled marksman can kill as many as one with a firearm. Ban all bows and arrows. There. That problem solved! Easy,eh?

Here's a few more items which can be used as weapons. Let's just ban them all!

Something For Everyone

Today's technology should work for us. Why "go physical" and ruin my makeup if I can zap a bad guy with my stun gun and make it to dinner on time? But overlying on your firearm, pepper spray or device-du-jour is dangerous. Violence pops up when women least expect it. Your body and whatever is within arm's reach is all you can initially count on.

Once you know how to use your body to generate power and you possess resolve, the deep muscle that funds all acts of self-protection, a pen in hand, junk on the street, or a hallway fire extinguisher, when used against a vulnerable target, becomes a handy, dandy weapon.

What follows are a few examples. But remember: Even with a "weapon" in hand, never expect one strike or surprise attack - e.g. hot liquid in the face - to enable escape. A pumped up aggressor can take a lot of punishment, so get your Mojo in gear and go maximum yang!

Ball Point Pen: This everyday writing tool can become a deadly weapon when thrust into the soft tissue of the throat, under the jaw line or—in a life-or-death encounter—the eyes. The point can also be driven into a groin or "punched" into the thin-skinned back of a hand.
Stick-like implements: Golf clubs, broomsticks, wine bottles, etc. can be thrust into vulnerable areas or used to strike (and bust) knees, hands, or the head. When held sideways, stick-like weapons, including umbrellas, can also be rammed into a neck or face.
In The Kitchen: Choose from cutlery, pots-n-pans (a pot cover worn on the hand will add zing to any palm strike!), cutting boards, or piping hot coffee. A metal soup can, jar or ceramic mug can be struck into the temples or face, swung back into a groin or used to bust a collarbone, disabling that arm. Hardcover books-such as cookbooks-can be thrust into a throat or smashed into a face.
Sharp Objects: A knife, letter opener, scissor, or piece of glass can be an effective fight stopper. One woman stabbed her rapist with a steel comb from her purse. It worked; she escaped.
Objects With Weight or Mass: A boom box, heavy vase or small table - can be slammed into the face or torso. Don't merely toss the item; keep it close to your body then charge into and through your target.
Makeshift Shields: One physician shielded himself from a patient's oncoming knife with his briefcase. Large thick books could also fit this bill.
Stuff It! A pillowcase containing a hard-hitting object - a brass candlestick, giant ashtray, your defunct toaster - could leave a lasting impression on Mr. Rapist's face. (And for you campers, a nice rock-in-a-sock makes a stunning weapon.)
Environmental Terrain: If immobilized from behind or lifted off the ground in a confined space (elevator, ladies room, kitchen) get one or two feet onto the edge of a countertop, or any flat surface, and shove off as hard as you can. You have padding behind you - him! He will "eat" the crash landing.
Distraction: Buy yourself a moment, then take control. A towel thrown over the eyes could work. So could dirt, sand, household products (and of course, pepper spray) aimed at the face and eyes. In the 1995 film Copycat, Sigourney Weaver fights for her life with a serial killer on a restroom floor. Even with her hands chained together, she slashes him with a piece of glass, then squirts shaving cream in his eyes. This distraction allows her to deliver a killer side kick and flee the restroom.

Now, all of the above items can be used in one of three ways.

For their orginally intended pupose

For self-protection


Or to maliciously cause injury or death to another person/s!

Common sense though would dictate that 'it is the intention of the user' that should be addressed ,rather than the object!


Last edited by Yogi on Sun May 23, 2010 12:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:23 am
 


Yogi Yogi:
Drugs. Let's just ban all illicit drugs. That will take care of all the 'drug related' problems of society for sure! The 'anti crowd' should definitely get on this right away. No one will ever again get ahold of 'bad drugs' again if they are banned! :roll:

:lol: This has been brought up before and the anti crowd doesn't seem to get the irony.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:09 am
 


Yogi Yogi:
I've been following this topic from page one. (edited for space)


Yogi, an outstanding post. Thank you for the effort. +1


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:43 pm
 


Can the people who wish to keep banning my right to protect my family and myself please explain why criminals are allowed to have any weapon they so choose? I work a full time job, married with a daughter, have a mortgage and car payment. I pay all my bills, don't steal, or hurt anyone. I'm a very responsible person and so is my wife yet we are not allowed to prepare to defend ourselves yet criminals are allowed to do so. Also, why are politicians allowed to have body guards that firearms? Oh wait, they're criminals so they're allowed.

I was just at this guys site named John Lott. He has a Ph.D. in economics and writes extensively about how banning guns doesn't reduce crime. There was a link on his site to an article about the mayor of Chicago, Richard Daley, who got really pissed at some reporter for asking the mayor how effective the gun ban has been in Chicago.


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