[Jabberwalker]

So, the crew of Toronto destroyed 180 Kg of heroin ... 400 lbs. of the stuff. How many deaths will come about from the consumption of that much heroin? You know that there will be some ... and a lot of other associated human misery, as well. If this seizure saves one life, it has been worthwhile. I'm sure that they did a lot better than that. If you think that we should just let heroin into our countries and let nature take it's course, you ain't thinking straight.

[Curtman]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

You want us to regulate heroine? Are you fucking insane?

Marijuana I understand, it is mostly harmless. Heroin & other hard drugs is destructive and by no means should be regulated or exploited.

Heroines are legal I think. Heroin is not.

The prohibitionists are completely clueless as to how to deal with addiction.

jibber-jabber-f9/drugs-cheaper-more-potent-despite-decades-of-the-war-on-dru-t106425.html#p2010991

There's no sense in having two threads of this topic.

[desertdude]

Yes lets regulate. So anyone can go buy it, if they don't kill themselves from a OD, get addicted which they will eventually and then treat them through the health system and if the make it, down the line they get buy some regulated and taxed dope and start all over again. Ace plan that is.

[saturn_656]

Arseholes who traffic heroin are literally trafficking human misery. That's all heroin is. Pure human misery.

The Toronto should have sunk that ship. And if it turns out there is more of the shit at the port that ship departed from, pull alongside and unload the entire armoury on the port.

That's just for starters.

[Jabberwalker]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Arseholes who traffic heroin are literally trafficking human misery. That's all heroin is. Pure human misery.

The Toronto should have sunk that ship. And if it turns out there is more of the shit at the port that ship departed from, pull alongside and unload the entire armoury on the port.

That's just for starters.

Absolutely.

[Curtman]

desertdude desertdude:

Yes lets regulate. So anyone can go buy it, if they don't kill themselves from a OD, get addicted which they will eventually and then treat them through the health system and if the make it, down the line they get buy some regulated and taxed dope and start all over again. Ace plan that is.

There's plenty of legal opiates on the market. Doesnt it seem strange to create a lucrative market for one thats easy to produce?

Does this approach actually make sense to you?

Ottawa overrules health officials on heroin study

$1:

The Harper government announced regulations Thursday aimed at denying heroin to Vancouver addicts involved in clinical research.

The move was made less than a year after the former federal health minister said political interference in the drug approval process was a "recipe for disaster."

Health Canada last week approved prescribing heroin to the study participants.

But that decision was overruled by the regulations that Health Minister Rona Ambrose announced Thursday. Meanwhile, the Conservative party has launched a fundraising drive linked to the issue.

"The prime minister and I do not believe we are serving the best interests of those addicted to drugs and those who need our help the most by giving them the drugs they are addicted to," Ambrose said at a news conference in Toronto.

"The answer of course is not to treat heroin addiction with heroin ... Our goal must be to take heroin out of the hands of addicts. We must focus on treatment and we must focus on recovery."

The regulations, which took immediate effect, will "protect the integrity" of Health Canada's special access to medication program by denying doctors the right to use it to provide illegal drugs like heroin or cocaine to patients, she said.

The special access program provides emergency access to medicines not yet available in Canada to doctors treating patients with "serious or life-threatening conditions when conventional therapies have failed, are unsuitable, or unavailable," according to Health Canada.

Ambrose's decision relates to 21 participants in a major clinical trial, all chronic long-term addicts who had failed to respond to methadone treatment.

The participants' approvals to access the heroin won't be revoked, though they can't be renewed after the permits expire in three months, according to Scott Bernstein, a lawyer with the Pivot Legal Society in Vancouver who represents their interests.

The trial was an attempt to determine if hydromorphone, a legal opioid painkiller, can work as an alternative maintenance treatment over diacetylmorphine, the active ingredient in heroin.

The study's proponents say ongoing provision of heroin, or a substitute without heroin's "emotional and regulatory barriers," keeps addicts involved in the health care system, improves their chances of eventually breaking their habits and/or find housing or employment, and sharply reduces the likelihood of their return to back alleys, dirty needles and crime.

Ambrose's rebuke of Health Canada's approvals coincided with a fundraising letter sent to Tory supporters by party official Fred DeLorey.

"I was shocked to learn today that Health Canada approved applications to give heroin to addicts - against the wishes of our elected government," he stated. "We're going to take steps to make sure this never happens again - but we need your help. If the NDP or Liberals are elected in 2015, you can bet they would make this heroin-for-addicts program permanent."

The government's approach received a scathing rebuke in Vancouver from the program's supporters.

"The minister is medically, morally and ethically wrong," said Dr. Julio Montaner, director of the B.C. Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS and an internationally prominent advocate for so-called "harm reduction" measures.

"This again falls into a pattern on the part of the federal government of acting based on ideology, while ignoring the science."

Both Montaner and Bernstein, the Pivot Legal Society lawyer, said the announcement contradicts that of Ambrose's predecessor less than a year ago.

Then health minister Leona Aglukkaq, in a letter to her provincial and territorial counterparts, rejected a request to delay the approval of generic versions of the highly-addictive opioid painkiller OxyContin, also known as "hillbilly heroin."

"A drug approval process based on politics is a recipe for disaster," Aglukkaq said.

Bernstein said legal action may be considered to fight the decision. Supporters of harm reduction efforts won a major legal battle when the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 2011 against the federal government's bid to shut down Insite, the supervised injection site in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside.

[Jabberwalker]

Oh well, in THAT case, the more heroin the better! Let's bring it in by the tanker full! Hang Harper and his health minister, who won't bring it in, for some unknown reason. What do they know, anyway?

[saturn_656]

Due to the existence of Methadone, there is no good reason to give addicts heroin.

None.

If they can't take methadone, do 'em cold turkey. Confine them if necessary.

[Curtman]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Oh well, in THAT case, the more heroin the better! Let's bring it in by the tanker full! Hang Harper and his health minister, who won't bring it in, for some unknown reason. What do they know, anyway?

Exactly, what do they know.. They attack injection sites. They'd rather just pick up the bodies off the street than prevent their death in the first place and have a shot at giving treatment.

[Curtman]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Due to the existence of Methadone, there is no good reason to give addicts heroin.

None.

If the can't take methadone, do 'em cold turkey. Confine them if necessary.

$1:

Ambrose's decision relates to 21 participants in a major clinical trial, all chronic long-term addicts who had failed to respond to methadone treatment.

$1:

The Harper government announced regulations Thursday aimed at denying heroin to Vancouver addicts involved in clinical research.
...
"The minister is medically, morally and ethically wrong," said Dr. Julio Montaner, director of the B.C. Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS and an internationally prominent advocate for so-called "harm reduction" measures.

"This again falls into a pattern on the part of the federal government of acting based on ideology, while ignoring the science."

andyt andyt:

This is very stupid, since the purpose of the study is to see if using dilaudid, already a legal opioid, is as effective as giving heroin maintenance. The Salome study indicated it was, guess they want to do more studying. But since it's legal to prescribe dilaudid, they should just set up a dilaudid maintenance program already for those who can't succeed on methadone. And Harpidiot wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it.

[Jabberwalker]

More heroin! We need to shovel more heroin into Vancouver and then all of their troubles will be over!

Well, I'm convinced, now! Why didn't we think of that, before?

Maybe, it's that "toxicity" thing that gets in the way, sometimes. God forbid if you put a toxic additive in food but injecting a potentially fatal poison into your blood stream, well that is a RIGHT! We have no business trying to protect such people from themselves. If any of you freedom lovers tries to shoot up one of my children, thoug,h I will hunt you down and kill you. There are limits to freedom.

[andyt]

desertdude desertdude:

Yes lets regulate. So anyone can go buy it, if they don't kill themselves from a OD, get addicted which they will eventually and then treat them through the health system and if the make it, down the line they get buy some regulated and taxed dope and start all over again. Ace plan that is.

Killing yourself with an OD is much more likely with street heroin, since you don't know the purity of it. That's why Vancouver cops put out warnings when there's hot heroin on the street and why Insite was set up (one reason) - to catch OD's from street heroin before they become lethal. Already plenty of people ODing on illegal heroin. If it became legal, would you try it? Anybody you know?

Our healthcare system is already paying for addicts to illegal heroin. HIV/AIDS treatment aint cheap, neither is Hep C, nor the other health impacts that could be prevented with legal heroin. Not to mention the costs of crime to buy the shit, the effects of prostitution, etc.

We should be spending money on prevention and treatment, not just enforcement. I can't think of anybody advocating making heroin available over the counter to any adult who wants it, so there would still be a large enforcement component for the illegal stuff. Unlike pot, which I see the same as booze, with similar enforcement levels and regulation.


For hard drugs, I would have no problem trying forced treatment before legalization, as long as we do incarcerated treatment better than we manage to keep drugs out of regular prisons. Many prisoners come out of prison with a monkey on their back that wasn't there when they went in. Some people say forced treatment works, some say it doesn't. I would be all for trying it for people who commit crimes to buy hard drugs. Just possessing or using hard drugs should not be illegal, that's an individual decision.

[Curtman]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

I will hunt you down and kill you.

You are a crazy person.

[andyt]

Understandable sentiment he has. Thing is, one of his kids is much more likely to choose to take heroin - not much forcing that dealers have to do. Cigarettes are a gateway drug, (much more so than pot) so Jabber should first be hunting down and killing cig pushers first. And of course a good proportion of drinkers go on to become problem drinkers and addicts, so there's a lot of hunting and killing Jabber would need to do before ever having to worry about heroin dealers. But odds are 4 out of 5 that Jabber drinks, and he may also smoke. Maybe investigate the toxicity of those substances while he takes time off hunting and killing heroin dealers.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

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-J.