[Lemmy]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

In a sense, it is built into our justice system, in that it is ostensibly designed to rehabilitate, not punish.

The subtlety that's often lost is the difference between sending a person to prison as punishment rather than for punishment. The punishment is being there, away from your home/family/job. It's not supposed to be torture while you're there. In that sense, the system is designed to both punish and rehabilitate. But some people don't think it's punishment enough unless the inmates are perpetually tormented while they're there.

[ShepherdsDog]

Big pharma creates profits by creating disorders......and why create a cure when you can create lifelong customers?

[Zipperfish]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

In a sense, it is built into our justice system, in that it is ostensibly designed to rehabilitate, not punish.

The subtlety that's often lost is the difference between sending a person to prison as punishment rather than for punishment. The punishment is being there, away from your home/family/job. It's not supposed to be torture while you're there. In that sense, the system is designed to both punish and rehabilitate. But some people don't think it's punishment enough unless the inmates are perpetually tormented while they're there.

Haters gonna hate. Some folks just like to see others suffer. Since they have no free will, they are just doing what their brain chemicals tell them to do.

It's an interesting philosophical discussion actually. If you deny the notion of free will, then there is really no moral agency. There's no intent, no mens rea. There may not even be justice--the people you put in jail are morally innocent since they were just acting int the way their brain chemicals told them to act.

Think of a guy who's been a law-abider all his life and then snaps and kills his family. It is discovered that he has a massive brain tumour that could easily have casued profound nerological impairment. How would the justice system treat that person?

Compare that to, say, a sadist who has been in trouble with the law since a child and kills that same family rather horribly. How would the justice system treat that person?

If you accept the evidence that there is no free will, neither has moral culpability.

Anyways, I've been down most of the nooks and crannies of that particular epistemological journey. My conclusion is that free will is an illusion, but one that is not easy to dispel. Indeed, once free will is gone, it becomes easy to make the argument that the entire concept of self, of conscience, is an illusion. That's your moment of Zen awareness right there. It's all well and good to reach enlightenement, but it won't put bacon on the table. The self, and free will, I think are necessary illusions.

That's what my brain checmials are directing me to think, anyway. Or maybe it's a parasite in my gut, or some molecules of a hormone currently being excreted by my pituitary gland.

[neopundit]

Headstrong Headstrong:

Same thing could be said about medicinal cannabis, but most around here would say otherwise.

Nice avatar.

[BartSimpson]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

You just had to know that big pharmaceutical would be involved.

In some cases I'm inclined to agree with this assumption but in others not so much.

Example. Alot of kids would be better off with a swat on the ass rather than a lifetime prescription of Ritalin that turns them into the living dead but, because a lot of the medical community have swayed by promises of quick cures and minimum cost for the health care system they've become accomplices in turning our mental health issues into big business and we're becoming over medicated in a lot of cases, which is just downright scary.

The other folks involved with the over-medication of children includes those highly praised public 'educators' who prefer to keep children tranquilized and sedated instead of engaged and learning. And let's not forget that minority of radical feminists (aka activist lesbians) who want boys sedated and chemically castrated to prevent them from acting like boys and maturing into men.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The other folks involved with the over-medication of children includes those highly praised public 'educators' who prefer to keep children tranquilized and sedated instead of engaged and learning. And let's not forget that minority of radical feminists (aka activist lesbians) who want boys sedated and chemically castrated to prevent them from acting like boys and maturing into men.

You're blaming the teachers instead of the policy makers. The root of the problem is that the government demands everyone be in school 'til age 18. Those who need to be medicated in order to behave themselves in a classroom setting shouldn't be in school in the first place. The blame lies with the parents who scream bloody murder about their child's right to an education (and the politicians who cave to that demand). The reality is that classrooms aren't the right places for many children. Some don't belong. But if the government tells the school that the kids have to be there, medicating them has to happen to prevent chaos.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The other folks involved with the over-medication of children includes those highly praised public 'educators' who prefer to keep children tranquilized and sedated instead of engaged and learning. And let's not forget that minority of radical feminists (aka activist lesbians) who want boys sedated and chemically castrated to prevent them from acting like boys and maturing into men.

You're blaming the teachers instead of the policy makers.

No, I'm saying that some teachers and lesbian-feminist activists promote medicating kids for reasons that have nothing to do with the best interests of the child.

Lemmy Lemmy:

The root of the problem is that the government demands everyone be in school 'til age 18. Those who need to be medicated in order to behave themselves in a classroom setting shouldn't be in school in the first place. The blame lies with the parents who scream bloody murder about their child's right to an education (and the politicians who cave to that demand). The reality is that classrooms aren't the right places for many children. Some don't belong. But if the government tells the school that the kids have to be there, medicating them has to happen to prevent chaos.

Medicating kids for the convenience of the teacher is a criminal act, IMHO.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No, I'm saying that some teachers and lesbian-feminist activists promote medicating kids for reasons that have nothing to do with the best interests of the child.

No question (except on it being a lesbian-feminist plot; now you're off on another of your crazy conspiracy theories ). But it's certainly not about the best interests of the child. It's about Boards collecting tax dollars. Dollars are maximized by maximizing enrollment.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Medicating kids for the convenience of the teacher is a criminal act, IMHO.

I agree, but the blame lies with the institution for demanding the kid be in school, not with the teacher for demanding there be order in the classroom. If the teacher were, to stretch the example, told that Hannibal Lecter must be in their classroom, we wouldn't blame the teacher for demanding that he be shackled on the refrigerator cart with the leather mask. Put Lecter where he belongs and he doesn't need to be shackled.

[housewife]

Lemmy half the drug kids aren't the ones your talking about. Years back a friend got a call from the grade 2 teacher to medicate her boy. She hung up. Hole bunch of stuff happened and the teacher quit!! (parents might have celebrated) The next teacher paid attention. The boy was fidgety cause he was board. She gave him busy work to do when he was done the assinment and reminded him he was really the only one in the class who could talk and work at the same time. End of issue and no drugs.

Little kids and more so boys are not good at sitting still. They bounce and have energy to burn. With schools starting to ban a number of games, balls, team sports. Not to mention large classes. No one seems to have the ablity to deal with the bouncing. They really need to run!

It's really no wonder kids health problems are on the rise. They are druged, put in front of a tv / computer and told not to play in a phyisical way. Down here they don't go out side when it is too cold

When I was trying to figure out what the heck was wrong with me I found a lot of info on people who were missdiagnosed. Spending years on new expensive drugs that were making them crazy!! As side effects grew so did the list of drugs they were on. It's like a great big experiment with someone makeing a ton of money.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No, I'm saying that some teachers and lesbian-feminist activists promote medicating kids for reasons that have nothing to do with the best interests of the child.

No question (except on it being a lesbian-feminist plot; now you're off on another of your crazy conspiracy theories ).

http://www.amazon.com/The-WAR-AGAINST-B ... 0684849577

Lemmy Lemmy:

But it's certainly not about the best interests of the child. It's about Boards collecting tax dollars. Dollars are maximized by maximizing enrollment.

True on this. That's why homeschoolers are so hated by the educrats.

Lemmy Lemmy:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Medicating kids for the convenience of the teacher is a criminal act, IMHO.

I agree, but the blame lies with the institution for demanding the kid be in school, not with the teacher for demanding there be order in the classroom. If the teacher were, to stretch the example, told that Hannibal Lecter must be in their classroom, we wouldn't blame the teacher for demanding that he be shackled on the refrigerator cart with the leather mask. Put Lecter where he belongs and he doesn't need to be shackled.

What's wrong with Hannibal Lecter?

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

True on this. That's why homeschoolers are so hated by the educrats.

Well, most homeschoolers shouldn't be homeschooled. They're homeschooled 'cause their parents are lunatics and lunatics are the last people who should be teaching children. You say medicating kids should be criminal. I don't disagree with that, but homeschooling, in most cases, should also be criminal; it's a indoctrination at best and child abuse at worst.

[Thanos]

Yeah, too much of "homeschooling" in the US is so terrible it makes what's taught in places like Bob Jones' University or Jerry Falwell's Liberty University look like 100% pure intellectualism in comparison. No different than what those crazy bastard imams end up doing to the minds of those kids in the Muslim world that are unfortunate enough to end up in a madrassa. Any adherence to any form of religious fundamentalism should be considered a dangerous mental disorder anyway, just to keep in tone with the original intent of this topic.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

homeschooling... (is) indoctrination at best and child abuse at worst.

What do you think homeschoolers think of public schools that sedate children to make them more manageable and who ceaselessly indoctrinate children in leftist politics and so-called progressive ideals like promiscuity without question and abortion on demand?

Also, there's this little tidbit...

http://www.examiner.com/article/homesch ... acceptance

$1:

In fact, almost twice as many homeschooled grads go to college (74%) as other 18-24 year olds (only 46%).

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

Yeah, too much of "homeschooling" in the US is so terrible it makes what's taught in places like Bob Jones' University or Jerry Falwell's Liberty University look like 100% pure intellectualism in comparison. No different than what those crazy bastard imams end up doing to the minds of those kids in the Muslim world that are unfortunate enough to end up in a madrassa. Any adherence to any form of religious fundamentalism should be considered a dangerous mental disorder anyway, just to keep in tone with the original intent of this topic.

Dial it down just a skosh, eh? We've got some public school types on here and if you're not careful they'll have the school nurse come dose you with clozapine.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What do you think homeschoolers think of public schools that sedate children to make them more manageable and who ceaselessly indoctrinate children in leftist politics and so-called progressive ideals like promiscuity without question and abortion on demand?

I think people who believe that nonsense are delusional lunatics.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

In fact, almost twice as many homeschooled grads go to college (74%) as other 18-24 year olds (only 46%).

They likely go to college to get away from their crazy parents.