[andyt]

Thanos Thanos:

Isn't the urge to nationalize the shipyards one of the main reasons that the overall price per ship ends up skyrocketing? It makes no sense at all to do that, not when we can't effectively and efficiently compete with countries like the US, Japan, or Germany who have shipbuilding down to a science.

YOu'd have to do an analysis of it, how much do you get back in tax revenue for building at home, stimulus to the economy, etc. If it comes out anywhere even it would be worth it. It would take a national, long term strategy, planning way ahead for what's needed so as not to feast or famine the shipyards. Provinces that need ferries would have to play along. Probably not something Canada is capable of.

[Thanos]

The problem with that kind of long-term planning is that it sets up a big juicy plum for the next government to cancel if the opposition replaces the sitting party in power. The best example of massively damaging the military in favour of short-term political gain was when the Chretien Liberals cancelled the Cormorant copter purchase just so they could exploit the near-hysteric level of anti-Brian Mulroney hatred that existed at the time.

I can't see any Canadian shipyard ever being effective and efficient enough to break even, not unless there was some kind of guarantee of building at least a hundred ships to sell to other countries. Otherwise it's just another Bombardier scenario in the making, in that the allegedly private company is simply not capable of surviving on it's own via contracts to supply the Canadian military alone without endless government pork-barrelling. When it all gets this damn murky and endlessly expensive the most patriotic thing to do would be to knock off the "home built" nonsense and just buy the damn things as stock items from the Americans or Germans already.

[BartSimpson]

Good news: I know where there's a spare engine for the destroyer!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... 11?ref=rss

[herbie]

We're surrounded by ONE country (Greenland and St. Pierre don't count) that's our main ally, completely different than Australia.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't have a better Navy. FFS why not just order 2-3 outfitted destroyers from the USA and license the plans for our shipyards to build 5 or 6 more here.
When we don't, at least we'll have a couple and only be out the licensing fee...

[BartSimpson]

herbie herbie:

We're surrounded by ONE country (Greenland and St. Pierre don't count) that's our main ally, completely different than Australia.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't have a better Navy. FFS why not just order 2-3 outfitted destroyers from the USA and license the plans for our shipyards to build 5 or 6 more here.
When we don't, at least we'll have a couple and only be out the licensing fee...

Before you license the plans for building ships you have to update the shipyards.

[herbie]

and hire 10,000 temporary foreign workers. Maybe we can go less ambitious and make a half dozen Torpedo Zodiacs for coastal defense...

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Good news: I know where there's a spare engine for the destroyer!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... 11?ref=rss

Jesus, can we get any more pathetic ?

[BartSimpson]

Pretty bad, ain't it?

[BartSimpson]

herbie herbie:

and hire 10,000 temporary foreign workers. Maybe we can go less ambitious and make a half dozen Torpedo Zodiacs for coastal defense...

Hell, copy the Iranians and launch Exocets from Bayliners!

[Nuggie77]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

herbie herbie:

We're surrounded by ONE country (Greenland and St. Pierre don't count) that's our main ally, completely different than Australia.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't have a better Navy. FFS why not just order 2-3 outfitted destroyers from the USA and license the plans for our shipyards to build 5 or 6 more here.
When we don't, at least we'll have a couple and only be out the licensing fee...

Before you license the plans for building ships you have to update the shipyards.

Actually both shipyards that won the contracts are fully updated and moving ahead with the projects.

[Nuggie77]

martin14 martin14:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Good news: I know where there's a spare engine for the destroyer!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... 11?ref=rss

Jesus, can we get any more pathetic ?

Well, seeing how Pratt& Whitney stopped supporting this particular type of engine over 20 years ago, it would be a bargain to get it for what he's asking.

[BartSimpson]

Nuggie77 Nuggie77:

Actually both shipyards that won the contracts are fully updated and moving ahead with the projects.

I'm referring to the Halifax and Esquimalt bases that both have shipyards of their own. I believe you're referring to the privately-owned shipyards that executed the upgrade project from 2008 or 2009.

[Nuggie77]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Nuggie77 Nuggie77:

Actually both shipyards that won the contracts are fully updated and moving ahead with the projects.

I'm referring to the Halifax and Esquimalt bases that both have shipyards of their own. I believe you're referring to the privately-owned shipyards that executed the upgrade project from 2008 or 2009.

I'm referring to Seaspan Vancouver and Irving in Halifax, that both just completed full upgrades to commence the NSPS projects. Esquimalt does not have ship building capability, either in the military yard or the civy yard, both are too small.

[BartSimpson]

Nuggie77 Nuggie77:

Esquimalt does not have ship building capability, either in the military yard or the civy yard, both are too small.

Right. That's why I say they need to be upgraded.

I will say, though, the old dry dock is still mighty impressive!

[Jabberwalker]

Those 280s were so feckin' beautiful when they were new. They were revolutionary design for a brief instant ... the first class of all-gas turbine powered warships. They were also designed and built JUST before the Arab oil crisis and they ended up being relatively expensive to run. The Frigates solved that with two diesels to cruise the world without needing an oiler nearby and two gas turbines to fight with when speed and mkanoever mean survival and success.

It's been almost forty years since I was up close and personal to a Tribal. I used to be in and out of the Iroquois engineering spaces but I never sailed on one. I believe that Shep did ( or was it Freaking Old Guy) and he said that it was an uncomfortable ride.

Anyway, they were gorgeous, quite powerful (carrying two big heilcopters and later, a silo of SAMs). They were all Canadian and we should be proud that we had the capability of designing one of the most advanced warships of her day back when there were about 22 million of us.

What a sad sight to see them just rotting away. A pox on our lousy governments that have our young men and women manning half century old ships!