[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

never credible.

See, you do have something in common with them.

[BeaverFever]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

News announcements have already stated Ontario has the largest debt of any sub-sovereign entity in the world.
Financial Post: With twice the debt of California, Ontario is now the world’s most indebted sub-sovereign borrower

$1:

Ontario, the world’s most indebted sub-sovereign borrower, is ploughing ahead with Canada’s most ambitious infrastructure plan — risking the censure of Standard & Poor’s and underperformance for its $307 billion of bonds.

The nation’s most-populous province is keeping a goal of spending $130 billion over the next decade on work such as roads and mass transit in Toronto even after S&P dropped its credit grade this month to the lowest level ever. Yield spreads on some of the province’s debt reached the widest since January after the ratings move.

Ps. I lived in Toronto from July 1987 to July 1990.

As I've said before most industrialized countries are unitary states meaning they don't even have sub-national states or provinces that operate independently from the federal government, and the most of the ones that do exist are smaller than Ontario. Most sub-sovereign debt is from municipalities.

Riddle me this Einsteins if Ontario debt is so bad why is our bond rating nearly perfect? Or do you not even understand the question?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Of course every left wing think tank has got it goin' on though. Bastions of unbiased reports they are.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

News announcements have already stated Ontario has the largest debt of any sub-sovereign entity in the world.
Financial Post: With twice the debt of California, Ontario is now the world’s most indebted sub-sovereign borrower

$1:

Ontario, the world’s most indebted sub-sovereign borrower, is ploughing ahead with Canada’s most ambitious infrastructure plan — risking the censure of Standard & Poor’s and underperformance for its $307 billion of bonds.

The nation’s most-populous province is keeping a goal of spending $130 billion over the next decade on work such as roads and mass transit in Toronto even after S&P dropped its credit grade this month to the lowest level ever. Yield spreads on some of the province’s debt reached the widest since January after the ratings move.

Ps. I lived in Toronto from July 1987 to July 1990.

As I've said before most industrialized countries are unitary states meaning they don't even have sub-national states or provinces that operate independently from the federal government, and the most of the ones that do exist are smaller than Ontario. Most sub-sovereign debt is from municipalities.

Riddle me this Einsteins if Ontario debt is so bad why is our bond rating nearly perfect? Or do you not even understand the question?

Ugh, the ratings are for 6 months to two year periods. Right now things are "rosy" for the creditors because Ontario does pay it's debt serving payments, to the tune of $11 billion/yr. In fact, Ontario spends a fair bit more servicing the debt than it does on high school education. ON top of that, there are one-offs that the Liberals are using to balance the budget for 2017-18, like the sale of Hydro One and a one time release of GM stock. The problem is, the balanced budget will be an illusion. The Liberals are planning on a $500 million surplus for the opening of the 2017-18 fiscal year. However, within the first minute (not literally of course), the surplus will be wiped out and Ontario will be back to deficit spending before the first quarter ends.
On top of that, a tiny 1% increase in interest rates and the debt will instantly increase by another $20-$30 billion pushing the debt servicing into the teens of billions. It's also going to be hard finding businesses who want to set up shop in a jurisdiction where only 23% of your hydro bill is actual hydro usage.
If you filled up your gas tank and the total came to $23, would you want to pay $100 for it?

[2Cdo]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's a right wing think tank, never credible.

Isn't attacking the source versus the article something you and the other left-tards whine about when someone from the right does it?

BTW who says it's not credible, the CBC?

[BeaverFever]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Ugh, the ratings are for 6 months to two year periods. Right now things are "rosy" for the creditors because Ontario does pay it's debt serving payments, to the tune of $11 billion/yr. In fact, Ontario spends a fair bit more servicing the debt than it does on high school education. ON top of that, there are one-offs that the Liberals are using to balance the budget for 2017-18, like the sale of Hydro One and a one time release of GM stock. The problem is, the balanced budget will be an illusion. The Liberals are planning on a $500 million surplus for the opening of the 2017-18 fiscal year. However, within the first minute (not literally of course), the surplus will be wiped out and Ontario will be back to deficit spending before the first quarter ends.
On top of that, a tiny 1% increase in interest rates and the debt will instantly increase by another $20-$30 billion pushing the debt servicing into the teens of billions. It's also going to be hard finding businesses who want to set up shop in a jurisdiction where only 23% of your hydro bill is actual hydro usage.
If you filled up your gas tank and the total came to $23, would you want to pay $100 for it?

No, both short-term and long-term debt are rated and we are excellent in both. Trust me, you don't hold some special knowledge or understanding that the rating agencies don't.

[BeaverFever]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's a right wing think tank, never credible.

Isn't attacking the source versus the article something you and the other left-tards whine about when someone from the right does it?

BTW who says it's not credible, the CBC?

It's an overtly conservative organization, that's not a secret. It's members include Ralph Klein, Preston Manning, and Mike Harris among many others.

I don't know how you don't know that.

Actually, I do know.

[2Cdo]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

It's a right wing think tank, never credible.

Isn't attacking the source versus the article something you and the other left-tards whine about when someone from the right does it?

BTW who says it's not credible, the CBC?

It's an overtly conservative organization, that's not a secret. It's members include Ralph Klein, Preston Manning, and Mike Harris among many others.

I don't know how you don't know that.

Actually, I do know.

I know it's right wing but that doesn't make them automatically biased and wrong, unless you're just a left wing hack.
Which explains you're double standard of what's credible.

[andyt]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Which explains you're double standard of what's credible.

which explains (you are) double standard of what's credible. He is?

[stratos]

Beaver is Ontario just paying the interest or interest and principle? If just interest then Ontario is in trouble. If paying principle and interest things are going well thus no worries.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Which explains you're double standard of what's credible.

which explains (you are) double standard of what's credible. He is?

Yaaa, grammar nazi andy picked up a spell check error. Congratulations fucktard.

[BeaverFever]

stratos stratos:

Beaver is Ontario just paying the interest or interest and principle? If just interest then Ontario is in trouble. If paying principle and interest things are going well thus no worries.

Most government debt is not in the form of bank loans. It is in the form of bonds that are sold to investors, which have a fixed maturity date.

[shockedcanadian]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

stratos stratos:

Beaver is Ontario just paying the interest or interest and principle? If just interest then Ontario is in trouble. If paying principle and interest things are going well thus no worries.

Most government debt is not in the form of bank loans. It is in the form of bonds that are sold to investors, which have a fixed maturity date.

Interest rates are low now to encourage spending and help kick-start the economy...for he last decade! It actually necessitates the need to be even more concerned about the debt. If it were, say, $10 billion total and could be easily paid off when rates rise that is OK. It s not however. So when rates rise, Ontario is in for a world of hurt with so much outstanding.

I think about 40% of debt is in bonds, which could reach junk status especially those of the long term duration.

[BeaverFever]

About 100% of Ontatio debt is bonds or similar instruments

http://www.ofina.on.ca/borrowing_debt/borrowing.htm

$1:

Ontario’s debt continues to climb, but investors will still buy it

TIM KILADZE
Toronto — The Globe and Mail
Last updated Thursday, Apr. 23, 2015 7:16PM EDT


Ontario Finance Minister Charles Sousa speaks during a press conference at Queen's Park in Toronto on Monday, September 22, 2014. Revenues are off by more than half-a-billion dollars but Ontario's Liberal government remains confident it can eliminate a $12.5-billion deficit in three years as promised. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Darren Calabrese
The Ontario budget shows no sign the provincial government is worried about its debt load. And by one major benchmark, it has no reason to be: fixed-income investors aren’t worried either.

Despite a net debt load totaling $284-billion, amounting to 39.4 per cent of its gross domestic product, the Ontario government will continue to borrow heavily over the next fiscal year, tapping investors for another $35.9-billion.


Yet there is every expectation that investors will snap up these bonds, the same way they clamoured for the $40-billion worth of debt sold last year.

Blame it on perverted markets: in an era of rock-bottom interest rates, the slight step up Ontario provides on its annual coupon, relative to federal bonds, is appealing to investors who are thirsty for yield. Lately, the 10-year Government of Canada bond yield has hovered around 1.5 per cent, and more than a trillion dollars worth of European government debt now pays negative yields.

“While the debt dynamics are not ideal, they're manageable,” said Ed Devlin, an executive vice-president and head of Canadian portfolio management at PIMCO, one of the world’s largest fixed-income managers. adding “this isn't a bad place to be.”

“I don't see this being a real market-moving budget.”

Susan Rimmer, who heads Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce’s debt capital markets group, which helps to underwrite the province’s debt sales, echoed the sentiment. “Investors crave bonds in this market and are happy to buy Ontario credit,” she said, adding that the province’s credit spreads over Ottawa’s bonds are at multi-year lows. When investors are worried, they widen these spreads, forcing Ontario to pay much more in interest than its federal counterpart.

Because there is such high demand for yield, Ontario has been able to sell more debt that matures farther out in the future – longer-term debt pays higher yields. In the last five years, the province sold $45-billion worth of debt that comes due in 30 years or longer – meaning it has locked in ultra-low rates for many decades.

The province’s total debt load is undoubtedly alarming, but when factored into investors’ decisions to buy the bonds, it’s not so scary.

The last time Ontario was in dire financial straits in the 1990s – when its net debt to GDP jumped to 32.3 per cent by 1999, up from 13.4 per cent at the start of the decade – the annual interest the province paid on its debt amounted to 15.5 per cent of its revenues. The equivalent figure today is a fraction of that, only 9 per cent – though it has climbed slightly since the financial crisis.

And in the 90s, the average effective interest rate on the province’s debt amounted to 9.5 per cent. Last year, it fell to 3.8 per cent.

Better yet, the province’s economic growth is encouraging. Around the world, the United States is often seen as the current engine of the global economy, saving us from anemic GDP expansion in Europe and a cooling China.

But U.S. economic expansion this year is expected to clock in at 3.1 per cent. Ontario’s, according to the budget, is expected to hit 2.7 – not far off. While that is only a projection, Ontario’s GDP grew 2.2 per cent last year, just shy of the U.S. economy at 2.4 per cent.

However, such figures can’t mask the total debt burden, which has worried debt rating agencies. Although Ontario’s fiscal deficit last year totaled $10.9-billion, which was smaller than the $12.5-billion estimate, the province had boosted its deficit projections in the 2013 budget. Before that, Ontario expected to be short only $10.1-billion last year.

Lately, rating agency Moody’s Investor Service has also warned that Ontario is starting to look troubled relative to Quebec, which was once viewed to be in dire straits.

“Ontario is in a more challenged position than Quebec because its debt burden has been rising since 2009, it faces larger ongoing deficits and also because there is a risk that all the cost controls designed to return Ontario to a balanced budget may not be carried out,” Moody’s noted in February.

The province is also susceptible to higher rates, and laid out in the budget that a 1 per cent rise in debt yields this year would cost it $400-million more in interest.

Concerns such as these have prompted Ontario debt downgrades by multiple rating agencies in the past few years. Investors, though, haven’t seemed to mind.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... ice=mobile