[BRAH]

During the boom energy companies were incompetent and reckless. Giving them $1.6 Billion will be squandered without helping those who need it.

[llama66]

BRAH BRAH:

During the boom energy companies were incompetent and reckless. Giving them $1.6 Billion will be squandered without helping those who need it.

Exactly. Its not the Rigpig from Red Deer fault. He needs the help, not the executive in Calgary.

[Thanos]

They'll actually hoard the money, which is worse than spending it, instead of committing it to new projects. It's just the way they think even though it's gift money that doesn't require payback to an outside investor when whatever project they could put it towards comes on-line.

[bootlegga]

llama66 llama66:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You Trudeau Derangement Syndrome folks don’t understand how Canada works. It’s BC, not the Feds holiding up the pipeline. If you’ll recall Trudeau BOUGHT the damn pipeline.

Also equalization payments to Quebec have nothing to do with this situation and they’re guaranteed under the charter so not available as a token in right wing fantasy extreme hardball plays

And once again the righties refuse to point so much as a pinky finger at the oil companies themselves. Plenty of blame to spread everywhere but never at the oil companies. A sure sign they’re being played for patsies.

One Word: Expropriation. What you don't understand is Trudeau can declare the pipelines a "National Strategic Project"(or whatever), Take the land and assert Federal Jurisdiction on it.

I actually blame OPEC and the Saudi's for this mess. They over produced, they crashed the market, but the left is responsible for this anti-pipeline rhetoric.

I also blame every Alberta PC government since Lougheed for not having Alberta's best interests in mind when they entered into business friendly royalties that ensured less money found its way into provincial coffers. Alberta's Heritage Fund and Norway's Oil Fund were both supposedly set up the same way, yet only one is worth $1T dollars.

But I do still blame Quebec, and anyone that's fine with taking foreign oil over locally produced stuff. Quebec blocked the Energy East Pipeline.

BC is also to blame, absolutely.

But its not like Trudeau doesn't have the tools to get the Pipeline built. He just lacks the balls to get the job done.

This is why Alberta is musing with Separation, our concerns are ignored and provinces can act in a manner that damages the Confederation and the Federal Government is powerless to stop them.

None of this is good, but its clearly big Oil and Gas that's responsible.

Yep, TMX is a national piece of infrastructure on the scale of the St. Lawrence Seaway or Trans-Canada Highway. It will provide access to huge, growing markets and generate tons of wealth, both for individuals and for corporations.

It is in the national interest and needs to be built sooner, rather than later. The delays in it are likely to cost Notley the next election (early 2019) and that's only going to hurt Trudeau's climate plans more, because Alberta is on the verge of electing a Doug Ford type turdburger in Jason Kenney.

The problem is Trudeau has refused to push it through over the objections of a handful of malcontents in BC. ALL of the First Nations along the pipeline route SUPPORT TMX, it's only a handful of groups in the Lower Mainland that do not. The majority of BCers also support it, again, it's just a vocal minority in the Lower Mainland.

However, as you noted, Alberta isn't blameless either.

Giving oil companies a 1% royalty rate on oilsands projects (until they are paid for) was a big mistake. We literally gave away billions of dollars in royalties on it, and caused a massive boom which made it next to impossible for the province to keep up with demands on infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, etc.).

Finally, our lack of foresight in regards to the HTF meant that governments since Getty stopped adding to it, on top of withdrawing $43 BILLION in interest over the past 30 years! That $43 billion would have grown the fund to somewhere near $200 billion, instead of the paltry $17 billion it is today (only $3 billion larger than when Lougheed retired).

FWIW, Quebec isn't buying Saudi oil (it appears that Irving is the one buying Saudi oil), it's mostly buying US oil.

https://twitter.com/trevortombe/status/ ... 3365289984

That of course does NOT absolve them for their work in killing Energy East.

Until EE and/or TMX is built, Alberta cannot get its goods to market and it going to see its economy weakened. Eventually, when our oil industry declines, it will also mean a decline in our federal taxes, which will mean less for equalization.

[Tricks]

This is how I see what should happen

Build pipeline
Make fuckton of money
Take profits and re-invest in alternative energy sources
Once oil market has died in 50 years, be leader in alternative energy

[N_Fiddledog]

Ottawa offers $1.6B aid package for ailing energy sector

Must be an election coming is the first thing that came to my mind.

[herbie]

Tricks Tricks:

This is how I see what should happen

Build pipeline
Make fuckton of money
Take profits and re-invest in alternative energy sources
Once oil market has died in 50 years, be leader in alternative energy

Here's what I see will happen:
Build pipeline
Barely recover investment as oil prices continue to suck due to oversupply
Invest any profits in corporate bonuses
When oil market begins to die enough in 7 to 10 years for people to take it seriously, flap gums, run in circles and miss the boat by 40 years on alternatives just like they did over oil and LNG exports.

SOrry to be a pessimist, but I only can base things on experience.....

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's a different POV than the CBC's below:

Corbella: Buying us with our own money doesn't work in Alberta, Mr. Trudeau

If you needed additional evidence that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau doesn’t understand Alberta, you got more of it Tuesday.

$1:

Federal Natural Resources Minister Amarjeet Sohi and International Trade Diversification Minister Jim Carr announced $1.6 billion in potential funding to Alberta’s oilpatch — with emphasis on the word potential.

“Our government always has and always will stand with the oil and gas sector,” Sohi said. “Because we understand that when Alberta hurts, so does Canada.”

One billion dollars of the funding will ostensibly help companies invest in new technologies, $500 million is available in commercial financing initiatives over three years from the Business Development Bank, $50 million is up for grabs from Canada’s Natural Resources Clean Growth Program, and another $100 million is available through Canada’s Strategic Innovation Fund for diversification-related projects.

What Trudeau and his government don’t understand is Albertans don’t want handouts. They want pipelines and sound policies that don’t scare away capital investment. Instead, on Tuesday, Albertans got more bad policy in the form of federal incentives using our own money.

While it’s not polite to look a gift horse in the mouth, the feds are really just returning one of our own horses — this one on its last legs — while it keeps our metaphorical herd of thoroughbreds.


(left to right) Minister of Natural Resources Amarjeet Sohi and Minister of International Trade Diversification Jim Carr take part in a press conference where the Federal government announced $1.6 billion in support for Canada’s oil and gas sector, at NAIT in Edmonton Tuesday Dec. 18, 2018. Photo by David Bloom

As recent Statistics Canada figures show, in 2017 Albertans paid $50.3 billion in taxes to the federal government and received $28.5 billion back in federal spending, leaving a whopping $21.8 billion net for the rest of Canada — the largest per-capita contribution to Confederation by far.

People in the oilpatch say this possible $1.6 billion of funding will do little to help our beleaguered industry, since nobody wants to invest in Alberta owing to the uncertainty caused by Trudeau government policies — particularly Bills C-69 and C-48 — coming down the pipe.

The only way to get investment to return to Alberta is if some of this money were used for memory-zapping electro-shock therapy or mass hypnotization of the whole world with regard to what Trudeau and Premier Rachel Notley have wrought on Alberta’s business climate.

When Trudeau unilaterally cancelled the Northern Gateway pipeline in 2016 (with no objection by Notley) — after Enbridge and its partners spent $1 billion jumping over countless regulatory hurdles and even after the project passed approval in the House of Commons under Stephen Harper’s Conservative government — he shook the confidence of global investors in the reliability of Canada’s regulatory processes.

As Tim McMillan, president and CEO of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, said in a recent interview, “the cancellation of Northern Gateway was the most damaging thing that’s been done to our economy,” as it proved that our regulatory system is not predictable but contingent on the political whims of a prime minister. Or, if Bill C-69 passes, on the whims of the environment minister as well.

Sandip Lalli, president and CEO of the Calgary Chamber of Commerce, said while “encouraged by the changing tone” from the federal government, “we have seen investment flee Canada due to uncertainty.

“We continue to advocate that the federal government listen to industry and investors by making the necessary amendments to Bill C-69 and adding more efficiency in the regulatory process,” said Lalli.

RELATED
Federal government commits $1.6B to oil and gas; called a ‘positive step,’ but no long-term solution
Premier Notley, who was in Calgary making another announcement, said most of the money available are loans.

“We didn’t ask for the opportunity to go further into debt as a means of addressing this problem,” she told reporters. “What we asked for was for them to remove the handcuffs.

“What we can only assume is that this is a first step and that there is more to come,” she added.

United Conservative Party Leader Jason Kenney said the announcement does “nothing to help the thousands of families in our provinces that are left unemployed as the result of Trudeau Liberal policies and actions.

“If the Trudeau Liberal government was serious about helping support workers in our energy industry, they would pull their devastating ‘No More Pipelines Law’ Bill C-69 and pull their Tanker Ban Bill C-48 — legislation that discriminates against Alberta oil but gives foreign oil a free pass.”

On top of killing Northern Gateway, Kenney also points out that Trudeau’s government “also killed the Energy East pipeline, further land-locking Alberta’s resources.”

By having nowhere to go, Alberta’s oil is selling at a huge discount compared with the benchmark West Texas Intermediate — and actually fell to a devastating $11 per barrel last month. Premier Rachel Notley announced that starting in January oil output will be curtailed, which immediately helped raise Alberta oil prices, but the differential is still huge, costing the Canadian economy about $80 million every day.

In other words, the differential, caused by a lack of pipelines (which is a federal responsibility) will cost $1.6 billion in just 20 days. Put that in your government’s cancelled pipes, Minister Sohi.

Federal Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer said Trudeau, who has been quoted as saying he wants to “phase out” the oilsands, doesn’t fool anyone with his feigned empathy.

“Today’s handout is nothing more than a desperate, election-year attempt to trick western Canadians into thinking he cares. He is trying to save a handful of Liberal seats, nothing more. I know Canadians will see it for what it is,” he said.

“As prime minister,” added Scheer, “I will end Justin Trudeau’s war on the energy industry. I will repeal Bill C-69. I will cancel the ban on shipping on the B.C. coast. I will scrap the carbon tax, clean up the regulatory regime and end foreign meddling in pipeline approvals.”

Sounds like heaven to this Albertan’s ears. Scheer, however, should add one more thing to that list — he should remove all political meddling in pipeline approvals. Government should simply set up a robust regulatory system, which we already have, and not allow politicians to have a say in killing them once they’ve received approval in the House of Commons. Period.

If Trudeau really wants to get some holiday cheer from Albertans, he would announce the scrapping of bills C-69 and C-48.

Trying to buy us with our own money doesn’t work in Alberta. If he was really listening, he’d know that already.

Licia Corbella is a Postmedia opinion columnist.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/colum ... mr-trudeau

[llama66]

Jack Mintz: Alberta has better reasons to Albexit than Britain did for Brexit
https://business.financialpost.com/opin ... for-brexit

[BRAH]

llama66 llama66:

BRAH BRAH:

During the boom energy companies were incompetent and reckless. Giving them $1.6 Billion will be squandered without helping those who need it.

Exactly. Its not the Rigpig from Red Deer fault. He needs the help, not the executive in Calgary.

Albertans stage massive “Truckers for Pipelines” convoy in Nisku
______________________

This is who the $1.6 Billion should go to. Drive down the highway and look at the grave yard in Ritchie Brothers yard lined up without un-used iron and other equipment.

[llama66]

They need to drive on Ottawa. Take the fight to the halls of power.

[bootlegga]

Tricks Tricks:

This is how I see what should happen

Build pipeline
Make fuckton of money
Take profits and re-invest in alternative energy sources
Once oil market has died in 50 years, be leader in alternative energy

That is what should happen - and what I hope for - but the odds are more like this:

Kill pipeline
Lose a fuckton of money on possible oil exports to Asia
Spend a fuckton of money on imported oil
Never build a proper alternative energy industry because we're paying for imported energy

[BeaverFever]

rickc rickc:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You Trudeau Derangement Syndrome folks don’t understand how Canada works. It’s BC, not the Feds holiding up the pipeline. If you’ll recall Trudeau BOUGHT the damn pipeline.

Also equalization payments to Quebec have nothing to do with this situation and they’re guaranteed under the charter so not available as a token in right wing fantasy extreme hardball plays

And once again the righties refuse to point so much as a pinky finger at the oil companies themselves. Plenty of blame to spread everywhere but never at the oil companies. A sure sign they’re being played for patsies.

So are you saying that the oil companies do not want pipelines? Do they prefer the status quo of super slow rail delivery to their final destinations as a way to suppress the price of Canadian crude oil?

No I said Trudeau isn’t the one holding it up. Also they don’t have any fewer pipelines than they did when they were making a fortune so how can the lack of new pipelines be the full story?

[BeaverFever]

llama66 llama66:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You Trudeau Derangement Syndrome folks don’t understand how Canada works. It’s BC, not the Feds holiding up the pipeline. If you’ll recall Trudeau BOUGHT the damn pipeline.

Also equalization payments to Quebec have nothing to do with this situation and they’re guaranteed under the charter so not available as a token in right wing fantasy extreme hardball plays

And once again the righties refuse to point so much as a pinky finger at the oil companies themselves. Plenty of blame to spread everywhere but never at the oil companies. A sure sign they’re being played for patsies.

One Word: Expropriation. What you don't understand is Trudeau can declare the pipelines a "National Strategic Project"(or whatever), Take the land and assert Federal Jurisdiction on it.

I actually blame OPEC and the Saudi's for this mess. They over produced, they crashed the market, but the left is responsible for this anti-pipeline rhetoric.

I also blame every Alberta PC government since Lougheed for not having Alberta's best interests in mind when they entered into business friendly royalties that ensured less money found its way into provincial coffers. Alberta's Heritage Fund and Norway's Oil Fund were both supposedly set up the same way, yet only one is worth $1T dollars.

But I do still blame Quebec, and anyone that's fine with taking foreign oil over locally produced stuff. Quebec blocked the Energy East Pipeline.

BC is also to blame, absolutely.

But its not like Trudeau doesn't have the tools to get the Pipeline built. He just lacks the balls to get the job done.

This is why Alberta is musing with Separation, our concerns are ignored and provinces can act in a manner that damages the Confederation and the Federal Government is powerless to stop them.

None of this is good, but its clearly big Oil and Gas that's responsible.

Expropriation sounds extreme. How about martial law and mass arrests? Perhaps a few public executions will shake things up.

Also I doubt the federal government can expropriate any land owned by FN or provincial Crown land. And the owners would have to be compensated for it anyway, who would pay for it?

[Freakinoldguy]

herbie herbie:

So tell us all what the right thing is.
Otherwise bitching about Trudeau even as he hands you money kind of proves you're merely an ingrate.
FFS there's some meat behind reasons for loathing Trump. You anti-Trudeau troll farm types wanna follow that playbook and snap at ghosts all the time?

Still choosing not to read what you don't like?

But since you asked how about this.

$1:

Everybody with half a brain can already see that if Ottawa really wanted to help the energy sector and Alberta, they'd build the fucking pipeline and quit using every excuse in the book to ensure it doesn't happen. They'd stop equalization payments to Quebec till these projects get back on track and they'd put tariffs on imported oil at least to the amount they've put on our own oil.

As for me being an anti Trudeau farmer I'll tell you what I told andyt when the currnt PM got elected. I said quite succinctly that I'd be all over him like shit on a blanket for everything he does that I don't agree with or feel helps this country. But I will applaud any things that I think he does that are worthy of praise

Unfortunately for you he's done about 2 things worthy of praise and dozens upon dozens that deserve heaps of scorn and ridicule.

So, if in you're opinion that makes me a "troll", so be it because i'm not about to change just to placate a person who's opinions conflict with mine.