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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:53 pm
 


Here's a nice picture of a 'British' Muslim excercising his right to free speech outside the court where these leeches were convicted.
Free speech that our guys fought for in various wars against tryanny and facism within and abroad.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:59 pm
 


just sickening... there is a difference from being "British" by passport and being an Englishman, Scotsman, Welshman or Irishman...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:05 pm
 


I dunno about that but I'd go with putting your country before your religion as my litmus test.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:08 pm
 


I mean it when someone like that calls themself "British" while doing things along those lines... not referring to actually integrated immigrants or their descendants... but putting the word British next to a tosspot like that turns my stomach


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:36 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Here's a nice picture of a 'British' Muslim excercising his right to free speech outside the court where these leeches were convicted.
Free speech that our guys fought for in various wars against tryanny and facism within and abroad.


Well, there you go. That picture is a Muslim admitting that Islam is the enemy of freedom.

Now where are the liberal apologists to "explain" what this man really means? :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:03 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Where's the tolerance for the views of these wonderful Muslims?


Why do you feel the compulsion to cheapen the discussion?

Whether this was five muslims, five red heads, five raging grannies, or five one armed taxidermists, the sentiment is likely to be the same.

Yes they have the right to freedom of speech, but clearly inciting intolerance and hatred based on their 'insert agenda here' is wrong - kinda like what you're trying to do here.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:09 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Here's a nice picture of a 'British' Muslim excercising his right to free speech outside the court where these leeches were convicted.
Free speech that our guys fought for in various wars against tryanny and facism within and abroad.


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British India Muslims fought for freedom in both World Wars as well as a number of smaller ones.

It would be fair to them to remember that, no?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:24 pm
 


Those look like Sihks, not muslims, in the picture. Mayhaps the good people of Luton, UK sould take some lessons from the people of Rosarno, Italy?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:32 pm
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Those look like Sihks, not muslims, in the picture. Mayhaps the good people of Luton, UK sould take some lessons from the people of Rosarno, Italy?


Plenty of muslims fought in the Indian army in WWI and WWII.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:13 pm
 


Not arguing that fact, and plenty fight in the armies of Western nations today.. I always err on the side of caution though.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:22 pm
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Those look like Sihks, not muslims, in the picture. Mayhaps the good people of Luton, UK sould take some lessons from the people of Rosarno, Italy?


Many Indian Regiments wore turbans and beards.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Those look like Sihks, not muslims, in the picture. Mayhaps the good people of Luton, UK sould take some lessons from the people of Rosarno, Italy?


Plenty of muslims fought in the Indian army in WWI and WWII.


Here's an article I think you'll enjoy reading Gunny. [B-o]



When Muslim, Sikh and Hindu soldiers fought together (WWII)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FEATURE-"Untold" story of WW2 stirs Muslim youth pride | Reuters

By William Maclean

BIRMINGHAM, England, July 3 (Reuters) - Taunted by racists as a "****" and "terrorist", Haroon bin Khaled spent his teenaged years feeling rejected by mainstream Britain and increasingly drawn to al Qaeda extremism.

But the young Muslim of Pakistani descent found an unexpected answer to his alienation the day he heard the story of how Muslim soldiers, many from what is now Pakistan, fought and died alongside Britons against the Nazis in World War Two.

Almost at a stroke, the jobless young man with an unpromising future felt a sense of belonging. As he examined the facts, he began to shed his belief Britain despised him or that fighting with the Taliban in Afghanistan was a worthwhile idea.

"Truthfully, it touched me," said the former gang member, now 21 and with a prison stretch for fraud behind him.

"If that could be shown to other youths it could make a big difference."

That "difference" could be better community relations, hurt in the years after the Sept.11, 2001 attacks on the United States and especially after four young British Islamists carried out suicide bombings in London in July 2005, killing 52 people.

It could also help security by dissuading Muslim men from joining the Taliban war against Western forces in Afghanistan, or from taking part in attacks at home such as the London bombings or attacks in Madrid in 2004 that killed 191 people.



"WE USED TO ADMIRE THE TALIBAN"

Bin Khaled is one of dozens of youths of Pakistani descent in the industrial second city of Birmingham to have attended a workshop by academic Jahan Mahmood that uses the Muslim role in the war to wean young men away from extremism and alienation.

Jahan says his presentation is intended to counter the notion of perennial confrontation between Christians and Muslims that al Qaeda seeks to present as an immutable fact of history.

Another attendee was Sabeel Saddique, 19, who used to watch videos of al Qaeda beheadings on his mobile phone for kicks and still feels Britain does not fully accept him.

"I've always thought that we were on our own," the burly former gang member said in an interview in the largely immigrant Sparkbrook district, a drab district renowned for drug dealing.

"We used to think, 'Taliban - yeah!' We admired them, we just wanted to be like them because everyone was always on about 'Muslims are terrorists' and it just used to make us angry."

Saddique said when New York's World Trade Center was attacked "we all thought it was cool ... But now I see it in a different way. That's all just wrong. It's killing innocents."

He still opposes Western armed action in Muslim countries. But he says his sense of belonging to Britain and his distaste for al Qaeda is real and stems from Jahan's lecture, which showed "what our grandparents have done for the country".

He just wishes white Britons knew that history as well.

"We are part of this country no matter what, because we did fight. You just don't feel like it, because the people don't know about it, and they don't treat us like we're part of it," he added.

Bash Arat Najib, a youth counsellor in the nearby town of West Bromwich, said Jahan's workshop got a "very, very positive" reaction among the alienated young men he works with, many of whom are of Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin. Many often ask why they weren't taught this information about the war at school.

"The vision they had from school was Germany on one side, Britain on the other, and the Americans coming in at the end," he said.

"They have no affinity with Britain though they may be born here. But the soldiers' story gives them a sense of belonging. It gives the missing ingredient of affection for the country."

The workshop tells how soldiers volunteered in the army of Britain's then Indian colony and fought in north Africa and Italy.

India's army grew from 200,000 in 1939 to 2.5 million in 1945, with Muslims making up about a third of the numbers at any one time. Most Muslim recruits came from what is now Pakistan.



"A SENSE OF PRIDE"

In all, 87,000 Indian army soldiers were killed in the war, according to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

Jahan's study, which focuses on 5,500 Indian army deaths in Italy, fascinates its audiences because it breaks down Muslim casualties according to recruitment areas within British India, and then traces links between today's British Pakistani communities and the areas where recruitment took place.

Young Muslims specially identify with Jahan's finding that of the 122 deaths of soldiers under 18 in Italy, 90 were Muslim. Among them were three 15-year-olds -- Amir Khan, from Attock, Gulab Khan, from Rawalpindi, and Mian Khan, from Kohat.

In a lecture at Oxford University in April, Jahan spoke of a "a pressing need to restore a sense of identity and self esteem for young British Muslims today".

" If more was known about the contribution of so many Muslim soldiers in the British Indian Army, it would help to restore a sense of pride, cement the social bonds of different communities in British society, and turn the idea of a shared heritage into a meaningful weapon against prejudice," he said.

The workshop was funded by a state programme called "Positive Futures" which supports local initiatives to help disengaged and vulnerable young people.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:04 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Here's a nice picture of a 'British' Muslim excercising his right to free speech outside the court where these leeches were convicted.
Free speech that our guys fought for in various wars against tryanny and facism within and abroad.


Image
British India Muslims fought for freedom in both World Wars as well as a number of smaller ones.

It would be fair to them to remember that, no?


Absolutely. The Sikhs were the backbone of the British Indian Army. Oh and only Sikhs or Lancers wore turbans in the old BIA. Muslims saw it as a slight on their faith to where anything that resembled Sikh religious head dress. Just a few Regs that came out as a result of the 1857 Indian Army mutiny.

There are moves afoot in the UK to create a Sikh regiment in the modern British Army from immigrant and 1st/2nd generation British Sikhs.

I don't see the 'British' Muslims looking at even joining the Army. Good picture though Gunnair.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:13 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Where's the tolerance for the views of these wonderful Muslims?


Why do you feel the compulsion to cheapen the discussion?

Whether this was five muslims, five red heads, five raging grannies, or five one armed taxidermists, the sentiment is likely to be the same.

Yes they have the right to freedom of speech, but clearly inciting intolerance and hatred based on their 'insert agenda here' is wrong - kinda like what you're trying to do here.


Gunnair, this is a subject that I have first hand knowledge of being a Brit, born there, worked there as a cop and in the military. I also still have a parent and grandparent, sisters etc living there.

There is a large and militant majority of Muslims in the UK that are consistently active in generally pissing off the native population of the UK. This is not a small minority.
Don't forget the bombings that killed 50+ people in London.

The situation in the UK is not a good one but please don't brush it off as a 'small minority' of Muslims causing the problems.

That is patently wrong.
Go to any large city in the UK that has a large Muslim (usually pakistani or Bangladeshi) community.
You will see it first hand if they don't kick the shit out of you for being in "their part of town".


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:46 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Gunnair, this is a subject that I have first hand knowledge of being a Brit, born there, worked there as a cop and in the military. I also still have a parent and grandparent, sisters etc living there.

There is a large and militant majority of Muslims in the UK that are consistently active in generally pissing off the native population of the UK. This is not a small minority.
Don't forget the bombings that killed 50+ people in London.

The situation in the UK is not a good one but please don't brush it off as a 'small minority' of Muslims causing the problems.

That is patently wrong.
Go to any large city in the UK that has a large Muslim (usually pakistani or Bangladeshi) community.
You will see it first hand if they don't kick the shit out of you for being in "their part of town".


Don't recall anywhere where I suggested anything of the sort. If you believe painting the whole for the actions of a few will make things better then there ain't much left to discuss.


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