[desertdude]

Like I said bro that's just a technicality. but I've met a lot of BBCDs and ABCDs aswell.

I'm sure you familar with those terms if you lived in the UK or hail from there

[kenmore]

Its basically the same here.. its infiltration and we are standing by and allowing it to happen.. you are right on EyeBrock!

[desertdude]

kenmore kenmore:

you seem rather anti Québec to be in another country.

No,read my post in the Quebec thread today. I'm just anti dumb ass and most of the times its you over here. I have to lower myself to dumbassery to come across to other dumb asses

[kenmore]

desertdude desertdude:

Like I said bro that's just a technicality. but I've met a lot of BBCDs and ABCDs aswell.

I'm sure you familar with those terms if you lived in the UK or hail from there

I am .. its British born cross dressers and arabian born cross dressers..... right?

[desertdude]

kenmore kenmore:

Its basically the same here.. its infiltration and we are standing by and allowing it to happen.. you are right on EyeBrock!

Thats a pretty ballsy statement for someone comming from a province who themselves are holed up in one corner of Canada. There are more Chinese in Canada than Francophones now. So French should be removed as an offical language and Mandarin be installed ? Also move out all the francophones out of Quebec and rename it Shangbec.

You should convert to Islam before one of us beheads you man, you know we are going to be taking over anytime now ...right

Be ready to pledge allegiance to Canadaistan !


P.S : Oh no, now poor ol ken will have a few more sleepless nights !

[kenmore]

desertdude desertdude:

kenmore kenmore:

Its basically the same here.. its infiltration and we are standing by and allowing it to happen.. you are right on EyeBrock!

Thats a pretty ballsy statement for someone comming from a province who themselves are holed up in one corner of Canada. There are more Chinese in Canada than Francophones now. So French should be removed as an offical language and Mandarin be installed ? Also move out all the francophones out of Quebec and rename it Shangbec.

You should convert to Islam before one of us beheads you man, you know we are going to be taking over anytime now ...right

Be ready to pledge allegiance to Canadaistan !


P.S : Oh no, now poor ol ken will have a few more sleepless nights !

You sir are missing the point on the language issue.. doesn't matter the number of immigrants in the country with a mother tongue other than french or english.. they are the two founding nations and those languages are enshrined in constitution.

[andyt]

The US gives Pak 7.5 billion annually in military aid, and the ISI actively supports the Taliban. We can send all the money we want over there, and it won't buy us any love. It won't be acknowledged as coming from us in the first place, and if it is it will just be seen as due tribute of the infidels. (Sorta like our natives). We got no cred when we bent over backwards to help in the last earthquake for instance. How long are we going to keep shoveling money at them, just so they can spit in our faces?

[kenmore]

Well said andyt.... well said.. the whole middle east is a pain in the worlds ass and the whole western civilized countries should join the fight to end this shit.

[Bodah]

Giving aid to Pakistan makes no sense to me since the Taliban in Afghanistan is trained funded and shipped out of Pakistan, Taliban HQ is safe there. I bet that's where Bin Laden is held up. That's why the fight in Afghanistan will go no where IMO until you take out the people funding and training which is happening in Pakistan.

Not the fault of the Pakistani people but the government has turned a blind eye to the Taliban in Pakistan for so long it's coming back to bite them in the ass where they can actually take over and some point in the future.

[desertdude]

andyt andyt:

the ISI actively supports the Taliban.

Although not a fan of the ISI and most probally true but your statements are based on reports that there are some documents in the wikileaks pointing towards that.

I have personally spent a few hours everyday going through them and couldn't find anything of the sort. And if anyone who has read any of those. These are very short reports sometimes juts a couple of lines long with any much details other than map cordiantes about the events being discussed.

I would more than interested to read if you could point me towards anything from that massive libarary pointing out that the ISI is funding the Taliban.

Basically as always what I'm trying to say is use critical thinking and not just to agree with something blind. because it strokes your own beliefs

[andyt]

Bodah Bodah:

Giving aid to Pakistan makes no sense to me since the Taliban in Afghanistan is trained funded and shipped out of Pakistan, Taliban HQ is safe there. I bet that's where Bin Laden is held up. That's why the fight in Afghanistan will go no where IMO until you take out the people funding and training which is happening in Pakistan.

Not the fault of the Pakistani people but the government has turned a blind eye to the Taliban in Pakistan for so long it's coming back to bite them in the ass where they can actually take over and some point in the future.

Right, not the fault of the people, most of them. It's the army, which is defacto ruler anywhere. The problem is that from Pstans perspective, arming and supporting the Taliban is a hedge against India gaining influence in Astan, which makes Pak very paranoid. I doubt anybody has a good idea how to clean up this dog's breakfast, but continuing to send people there to die for a futile cause seems just that.

[Khar]

This gives me a strong flashback to the IMF talks back in 2008, when it looked like IMF had actually (finally) made the right decision in checking and demanding changes in how the money which had been given to them from the international community was being spent, since an inordinate amount was being shifted away from economic growth, trade and infrastructure and simply buying consumer goods and supporting the army. Of course, this is after billions had been given to the country year after year and waiver after waiver was given for prerequisite alterations needed in Pakistan to be able to get the next round of money. The IMF ended up responding that they wanted major oversight from it's own senior officials when the next budget came up, and others to be present to regulate the central bank of Pakistan. This of course, was unacceptable -- it may require Pakistan to live up to agreements it had been dodging for years -- and they turned around and headed to Saudi Arabia for help. One of them was a 30% reduction in spending of armed forces, which was considered essential by he Pakistani representatives for the fight againt the Taliban and the smooth operation of the military itself. For those wondering, IMF ended up paying out emergency funds in November, and Pakistan overshot it's budget by 490 million US the end of the fiscal year in June. The urgency to save Pakistan by an ending inflationary swirl of borrowing from it's central bank sent IMF charging in with the burgeoning pockets of the international community, withdrawing with them a bit lighter.

Even worse, the IMF does this with several other countries previous to the economic downturn (and still does do this), where in exchange for promises of "this year it'll be different" billions more was cashed out to nations with the inability or disinterest in dividing up and using the money effectively. There's a few African dictators out there worth billions thanks to the IMF and their poor forecasting and lending practices, and even though a lot of them who have been disposed of their money is in a bunch of tax havens around the world.

In any case, this situation really brings to light just how little infrastructure has improved. Many villages are still without electricity or sewage systems, even right outside major metropolitan areas. Many are forced into substinance farming which improves the chances of floods, droughts, and other major issues. It's emergency response is limited and the roads to the site difficult to use. It was only a matter of time -- that it was the international community who responded with great breadth and readiness expands this problem to a whole new horizon. Will changes in aid and IMF funding come from this? If anything, I expect they will go up, waivers for key changes required to be applicable for funding will get easier to get, and the government will get to a new level of sympathy from the international community. I doubt this increased capital will have a corresponding improvement in the general poverty alievement and infrasture construction that this money is in part intended to handle.

In the end, the IMF went back to funding Pakistan, and in fact issued a 1.3 billion dollar US disbursement to the nation at the end of July on top of the money which Pakistan was already getting from the IMF this year and other aid agencies, from what I remember. I don't think it's going to be spent correctly this time around either, and have little hope the IMF or the UN will provide the oversight to make sure the money goes to the right areas of the country to ensure disasters like this don't happen again -- especially into providing improved infrastructure and researching better farming techniques to improve the resistance of the area to floods in general, even though in monsoon soaked regions they'll likely be impossible to stop altogether a wide impact event.

I feel sorry for those who have been lost and left homeless because of this tradgedy. The loss of a home is monumental to all people, and the loss of an entire village, for some a center part of the world they know, is no doubt earth shattering for many. I hope the necessary aid reaches the areas it is most needed in, and wish those affected the best! It is most unfortunate that so many have lost crops and so many others will suffer with them because of it. That they have already seen a response is, at least, a bit heartening.

[andyt]

desertdude desertdude:

andyt andyt:

the ISI actively supports the Taliban.

Although not a fan of the ISI and most probally true but your statements are based on reports that there are some documents in the wikileaks pointing towards that.

This was common knowledge years before the wikileaks. I did read (maybe posted here) and article where a former Canadian ambassador to Pak said the one positive outcome of the wikileaks is that it will make the ISI involvement harder to ignore. So presumably it's in there somewhere, but as I say, this has been discussed for ever. Thing is nobody really wants to address it, because nobody knows how to deal with it. So they just blather on about how if we can kill enough Taliban in Astan, and build a few schools, everything will be OK. Without major changes in Pstan, it's hopeless. And those changes aint likely.

[Khar]

News Articles:

Vancouver Sun: Pakistan secretly helping Taliban, Wikileaks documents reveal
GlobalPost: WikiLeaks: the Taliban, the ISI and U.S. strategy in Afghanistan
The Guardian: WikiLeaks and the ISI-Taliban nexus
The News: WikiLeaks reports on Taliban-ISI collusion
CNN Opinion: Why Pakistan is crucial in fight against Taliban
The Times of India: Obama's focus is Pak duplicity

I think I nailed most of the related news articles from various sources here -- hopefully you get a bunch of different political and such points of view on the ISI-Taliban discussion. A lot of the drama came when Cameron said that Pakistan can't play both sides of the field anymore, which caused a bit of controversy since not one world leader had really recognized officially the idea that Pakistan was not as dedicated to the war as they wanted folks to believe.

Other than that, though, the media opinion seemed rather split on the topic. Some, like the article from The Guardian and The News, from late July, note that the leaked information seemed less condemining than they had thought it would be, although the latter is a bit of a meta-article with key lines quoted from other articles as an amalgamation of opinion on the topic. They said that it's hardly a convincing smoking gun they believed some were looking for. Others seemed more convinced that it was evidence of Pakistani duplicity in intelligence writing. The responses were a bit overshadowed when the British PM decided to make a bit of a candid comment in India which implicated Pakistan as fence sitters.

[Scape]

The Pakistan/Afghanistan region is the wild west with the Taliban doing the scalping. There is far to much to be lost by letting them have a free hand but it is also insanely expensive to police them ourselves. What little infrastructure there is to field a domestic force is a target and there is no help from the Muslim world or the Russians and Chinese who really need to have a stake in this. The best the west can do is erect a corrupt puppet plutocracy in Pakistan and a corrupt city state centered in Kabul but has no power to control the rural areas at all.

It is not tenable and time and money are not endless.