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CKA Super Elite
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:58 pm
 


no.. because as a tory you prefer to have racist, rednecked, bigotted, rightwingers whose values are the same as yours... there is a difference between a member of parliament and a social servant... this guy should be turfed out on his rednecked ass...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:58 pm
 


Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Benoit Benoit:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
there are many police officers that have said similar things at parties 16 years ago, should they all resign?


If only Lukiwski would have said that he was drunk at a party in his contrition speech.


If only people spent more time worrying about the actions of politicians instead of the words from a politician, we would not have re-elected the Liberals so many times.


A politician is someone who do things with words.

http://www.garretwilson.com/books/revie ... words.html


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:35 pm
 


Benoit Benoit:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
Benoit Benoit:
Aging_Redneck Aging_Redneck:
there are many police officers that have said similar things at parties 16 years ago, should they all resign?


If only Lukiwski would have said that he was drunk at a party in his contrition speech.


If only people spent more time worrying about the actions of politicians instead of the words from a politician, we would not have re-elected the Liberals so many times.


A politician is someone who do things with words.

http://www.garretwilson.com/books/revie ... words.html


Well we can't call you a politician benoit, as you do sweet fuck all with words besides bore our tits off.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:49 pm
 


kenmore kenmore:
no.. because as a tory you prefer to have racist, rednecked, bigotted, rightwingers whose values are the same as yours... there is a difference between a member of parliament and a social servant... this guy should be turfed out on his rednecked ass...
You ever notice how you are one of the first to resort to insults and name calling? How tolerant of you.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:58 pm
 


$1:
because as a tory you prefer to have racist, rednecked, bigotted, rightwingers whose values are the same as yours...


Qualifies as hate speech if you ask me.
Spoken today and presumably while sober.

Much worse than ramblings at a booze party 19 years ago.

Shame on you. Disgusting and insensitive in the extreme. Ask for forgiveness then ban yourself.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:53 pm
 


RUEZ RUEZ:
kenmore kenmore:
no.. because as a tory you prefer to have racist, rednecked, bigotted, rightwingers whose values are the same as yours... there is a difference between a member of parliament and a social servant... this guy should be turfed out on his rednecked ass...
You ever notice how you are one of the first to resort to insults and name calling? How tolerant of you.


I don't think I've seen a post from Kenmore without an insult in it. :lol:

After reading his post and another from some other bonehead referring to all Albertans as "rednecks" I had to wonder. The other day someone referred to Quebecers as "frogs" and of course people shot back on how that was a bigoted remark and commented on how rude of a term it was. Funny how the same doesn't apply to the use of the term "redneck" when people are referring to Albertans on this forum.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:00 pm
 


dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
RUEZ RUEZ:
kenmore kenmore:
no.. because as a tory you prefer to have racist, rednecked, bigotted, rightwingers whose values are the same as yours... there is a difference between a member of parliament and a social servant... this guy should be turfed out on his rednecked ass...
You ever notice how you are one of the first to resort to insults and name calling? How tolerant of you.


I don't think I've seen a post from Kenmore without an insult in it. :lol:

After reading his post and another from some other bonehead referring to all Albertans as "rednecks" I had to wonder. The other day someone referred to Quebecers as "frogs" and of course people shot back on how that was a bigoted remark and commented on how rude of a term it was. Funny how the same doesn't apply to the use of the term "redneck" when people are referring to Albertans on this forum.
Exactly. PDT_Armataz_01_37





PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:16 pm
 


kenmore kenmore:
no.. because as a tory you prefer to have racist, rednecked, bigotted, rightwingers whose values are the same as yours... there is a difference between a member of parliament and a social servant... this guy should be turfed out on his rednecked ass...


maybe we should report this post :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:55 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:


I disagree. In 1991 the Supreme Court had not even recognised equality of gays as spouses. The world was a very different place. If you were an adult then you would have no problem in seeing that point, obviously you were somewhat younger than I was 17 years ago.


Argumentative fallacy aside, I wasn't an adult in 1991 - I also wasn't a bigot then and neither were others. It seems clear that you're rationalizing more than explaining.

$1:
It's definitely not the same world view and comparing 1991 to 2008, well they are very different eras in social history.


No they're not and no one even remotely aware of cultural mores would buy that. Sorry, but you're wrong - making blatant inappropriate comments towards homosexuals in 1991 is fair game for condemnation (again, if that's not the case, why do Holocaust Historians chastise Nazi Germany for its homophobic legislation and actions? According to you these scholars have erred. Nope)

$1:
I'm not a proponent of the attitudes of 1991 but making fun of gays was quite acceptable back then and I admit I was a reflection of the societal norms of the day and I would say that by todays standards I had bigoted views.


It was acceptable to bigots maybe, but socially progressive individuals never condoned such behavior.

$1:
But that was 17 years ago and I've altered my views and I have collegues and friends who are gay, lesbian and in same-sex marriages. I realise my views of 1991 were wrong and intolerant and personally I'm a little ashamed about my 1991 persona. I'm sure if somebody had taped a drunken night out of mine in the military, it would be peppered with views that I no longer, if I ever really did, hold.


Good for you, but that doesn't alter the bigotry behind the comments nor the worldview that produced them. Seventeen years ago (again, i've noticed you've glossed over many of my points regarding the similarities between contemporary norms, mores and education expectations) isn't much different than today. Unfortunately, you're only examining it through your own personal experience and that's fine, but that doesn't mean a wider social conclusion can be drawn from it.

$1:
And I never did say mainstream was legit. I just said it was mainstream oh most blessed and sin-free mustang.


Firstly, drop the condescending tone and secondly don't assume that just because you somehow altered your previously flawed world view that the rest of us were in a similar boat. I never possessed a prejudice towards homosexuals and even as a teenager I knew that homophobia was wrong.

$1:
You don’t have to explain the consequences of unbridled social oppression to me, this isn’t a TreeHouse program on civil rights, I get it. Some of us plebs can think too.


Good - then the point was taken. I'm not an apologist for racists in the 60s just because there were Dixiecrats in office. See the parallel?

$1:
As a matter of interest your rather intolerant view of rehabilitation runs contrary to even the lefty Toronto Star. They have the usual un-scientific poll running and this one says that 66% agree that the apology was enough. More tyranny of the majority?


As a matter of interest to your rather dogmatic, intellectually fallacious view I NEVER called for anything more than an apology. Perhaps instead of ascribing views to me that haven't been committed (I'll tell you what - i'll spot you 2 posts to prove your point with textual evidence) to text you could stick to the point. Lose the cheap disingenuous tactics as i've only said his statement were indeed bigoted, but not sufficient for resignation. Nice try


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:02 pm
 


nvm


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:53 pm
 


Let me weigh in as a Gay Tory...

Brad Wall: non-issue with him, he was drunk young, and making some Ukrainian jokes. Although inappropriate no big deal.

Tory MP: He has apologized and I accept his apology, and I don't believe he should have to resign over something he said 17 years ago.

ALTHOUGH, I do think those comments reflect his character and views on gays and lesbians.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:16 pm
 


Mustang1 Mustang1:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:


I disagree. In 1991 the Supreme Court had not even recognised equality of gays as spouses. The world was a very different place. If you were an adult then you would have no problem in seeing that point, obviously you were somewhat younger than I was 17 years ago.


Argumentative fallacy aside, I wasn't an adult in 1991 - I also wasn't a bigot then and neither were others. It seems clear that you're rationalizing more than explaining.

$1:
It's definitely not the same world view and comparing 1991 to 2008, well they are very different eras in social history.


No they're not and no one even remotely aware of cultural mores would buy that. Sorry, but you're wrong - making blatant inappropriate comments towards homosexuals in 1991 is fair game for condemnation (again, if that's not the case, why do Holocaust Historians chastise Nazi Germany for its homophobic legislation and actions? According to you these scholars have erred. Nope)

$1:
I'm not a proponent of the attitudes of 1991 but making fun of gays was quite acceptable back then and I admit I was a reflection of the societal norms of the day and I would say that by todays standards I had bigoted views.


It was acceptable to bigots maybe, but socially progressive individuals never condoned such behavior.

$1:
But that was 17 years ago and I've altered my views and I have collegues and friends who are gay, lesbian and in same-sex marriages. I realise my views of 1991 were wrong and intolerant and personally I'm a little ashamed about my 1991 persona. I'm sure if somebody had taped a drunken night out of mine in the military, it would be peppered with views that I no longer, if I ever really did, hold.


Good for you, but that doesn't alter the bigotry behind the comments nor the worldview that produced them. Seventeen years ago (again, i've noticed you've glossed over many of my points regarding the similarities between contemporary norms, mores and education expectations) isn't much different than today. Unfortunately, you're only examining it through your own personal experience and that's fine, but that doesn't mean a wider social conclusion can be drawn from it.

$1:
And I never did say mainstream was legit. I just said it was mainstream oh most blessed and sin-free mustang.


Firstly, drop the condescending tone and secondly don't assume that just because you somehow altered your previously flawed world view that the rest of us were in a similar boat. I never possessed a prejudice towards homosexuals and even as a teenager I knew that homophobia was wrong.

$1:
You don’t have to explain the consequences of unbridled social oppression to me, this isn’t a TreeHouse program on civil rights, I get it. Some of us plebs can think too.


Good - then the point was taken. I'm not an apologist for racists in the 60s just because there were Dixiecrats in office. See the parallel?

$1:
As a matter of interest your rather intolerant view of rehabilitation runs contrary to even the lefty Toronto Star. They have the usual un-scientific poll running and this one says that 66% agree that the apology was enough. More tyranny of the majority?


As a matter of interest to your rather dogmatic, intellectually fallacious view I NEVER called for anything more than an apology. Perhaps instead of ascribing views to me that haven't been committed (I'll tell you what - i'll spot you 2 posts to prove your point with textual evidence) to text you could stick to the point. Lose the cheap disingenuous tactics as i've only said his statement were indeed bigoted, but not sufficient for resignation. Nice try


Ok, besides your usual arrogant response it's quite obvious that you can't put yourself in anybody else’s position and be open to other points of view.
Unfortunately you can't tell me about my experiences in 1991 while you were in the grade 2 debating club.
I experienced the era as a mature adult and you obviously didn't, I do believe that I am entitled to post comments on my own personal experiences during the 1990's. You can obviously read a very prominent paper written by some professor you worship to apprise yourself of another point of view.

Please do spare me the usual long winded and verbose responses.
Yes we all know you went to university and that you are a very clever chap, you don't need to vomit a dictionary onto your every post to impress us mere plebs.

As usual you make this a personal pissing contest about how you know so much more than us mere mortals.
Try a little humility in your approach and maybe people would take you more seriously. At the moment you just come across as a strutting, arrogant know-it-all bore. Not at all pleasant really and quite a waste of effort to debate with. You don’t even try to see anybody else’s viewpoint.
You ever gone for a personality profile? You should try it and maybe you’ll wake up to how you are coming across to others.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:41 am
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Ok, besides your usual arrogant response it's quite obvious that you can't put yourself in anybody else’s position and be open to other points of view.


Ok, besides your usual intellectually insecure response, it's quite obvious that all you can do is base big ideas off your own personal experiences. Don't paint me with your brush as I can see other's points of view, but that doesn't mean they're correct. Retreat to intellectual relativism if it makes you feel better.

$1:
Unfortunately you can't tell me about my experiences in 1991 while you were in the grade 2 debating club.


Nope, but I can tell you that homophobia was alive and well in 1991 despite your rationalizations.

$1:
I experienced the era as a mature adult and you obviously didn't, I do believe that I am entitled to post comments on my own personal experiences during the 1990's. You can obviously read a very prominent paper written by some professor you worship to apprise yourself of another point of view.


Argumentative fallacy aside, no one's questioning your personal experiences, i've only had reservations that they are somehow justified or socially permissible the time. You've done squat to address that.

$1:
Please do spare me the usual long winded and verbose responses.


I'll post what i want and you're free to ignore it.

$1:
Yes we all know you went to university and that you are a very clever chap, you don't need to vomit a dictionary onto your every post to impress us mere plebs.


Again with the banal insults and intellectual insecurity. Perhaps you could focus on the points instead of making this into somehow personal whine fit

$1:
As usual you make this a personal pissing contest about how you know so much more than us mere mortals.


This smells of projection and your reek of it. Try again.

$1:
Try a little humility in your approach and maybe people would take you more seriously. At the moment you just come across as a strutting, arrogant know-it-all bore. Not at all pleasant really and quite a waste of effort to debate with. You don’t even try to see anybody else’s viewpoint.


Perhaps you should try to stop whining about your own intellectual shortcomings and retreating to dime store psychology in a pitiful attempt to address your own issues. You've erred in assessing past social mores, misinterpreted my position, created conclusions and then hypocritically accused me of personally investing in this while you drone on and on about my alleged shortcomings. In short, each and every time you find yourself beyond your intellectual tether you resort to these kind of tactics. Perhaps, like your original worldview, you're wrong. But, hey, I'll remember your passive endorsement of intellectual relativism from here on in.

$1:
You ever gone for a personality profile? You should try it and maybe you’ll wake up to how you are coming across to others.


I'm good, but thanks for assuming YOUR personal assessment counts for something. Who's arrogant now? Hypocrisy at its finest.

When everything is said and done - homophobia was alive and well in 1991. Despite the fact that some may have harbored those perspectives and have since reassessed their validity, doesn't change the fact they were, in fact, bigoted (you'll notice that Eyebrock refuses to explain how Holocaust Scholars condemn Nazis homophobia in the 1930s and 40s, but it's permissiable in 1991 Canada.). Perhaps Eyebrock can present his statue of limitations regarding racism, Antisemitism, homophobia, xenophobia and sexism? I'd love to know when it's acceptable to hold people accountable for socially regressive ideas and actions. Perhaps instead of resorting to personal slurs, he can enlighten us with his information?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:41 am
 


I don't think bigotry against gay people was socially "permissable" in 1991. I have a friend who printed a "homophobic" cartoon in a student newspaper around that time and he wound up being grilled by Peter Mansbridge on the evening news for his efforts.

Regardless, I have little patience for those in privileged positions in society who seek out the weakest to bully. This speaks to character more than it does the time-relative mores of human society.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:25 am
 


go ahead and report it mtbr... its my opinion which I am entitled to...


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