[Freakinoldguy]

herbie herbie:

Oh come on, just come up with ONE reason they'd shoot down a Ukranian airliner full of Iranians and Iranian/something else passengers on purpose.
Some subcommander will get his head lopped off, compensation will get offered.

WHO got them all jumpy and on edge? Who? Point your finger there!

Because every other civilian airliner that's ever been shot down was out of normal air routes and were (questionably) misidentified. This plane for some reason was none of those things. It was on take off from a civilian runway in Terhan, on a normal flight path and was on it's way out of the country not into it.

So, given it didn't stray into someones airspace, it wasn't misidentified and for some "strange reason" a country on a war footing allowed civilian airlines to fly out of their airports with at will while failing to inform their missile defense batteries that this was happening shows that it very likely wasn't an accident especially since all you have to do is look at who in Iran launched the missiles.

But hey keep believing the Iranians who, just happen to be the same people who denied shooting it down till the evidence was provided and then had to back track and claim they or at least their radical military lunatics fucked up and made a mistake.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6389887/iran ... own-error/

And, if the assholes who pulled the trigger were jumpy enough to commit this atrocity then all those years of rigorous training were a giant fucking wast of time. Especially since they could have just manned their missile sites with some tech type but unqualified guys right off the streets of Terhan.

But hey I get it, it's better to scream "Orange Man Bad" than to face the fact that the Revolutionary Guard does what it wants with impunity in that country and this time it bit the Iranian regime in the ass.

[Sunnyways]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Tricks Tricks:

Iran admitted to shooting it down by accident.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-e ... EMv52a5lpo

They may have admitted that it was an accident but I like alot of others remain more than a little skeptical.

Piss poor radar and a trigger happy Revolutionary Guard battery commander aside how the fuck you can't differentiate a plane taking off from your country's main airport runway and moving away to a plane coming in low for an attack is beyond belief.

Nope they shot it down on purpose and whether it was the action of a rogue battery or a calculated move by the gov't and or ayatollahs someone in Iran had a reason for doing it and did it.

Why would you think that? The mullahs could lose their jobs over this and the missile systems in Iran are incredibly primitive. Incompetence is always the first explanation in such situations but we prefer a silly conspiracy. The US made a similar mistake 30 years ago in the Persian Gulf and reluctantly confessed, whereas the Russians downed MH17 and have yet to admit the fact many years later.

[herbie]

Orange Man started this shit.
And the exact reason you claim as proof it was intentionally shot down is the exact reason they wouldn't. Aside from having nothing to gain internationally
--they just showed their incompetence to the world. And worse to their own people! If their commanders are so inept they can't tell an airliner from a cruise missile and which direction something is flying, then obviously the USA can kick the living shit out of Iran in like four minutes.
Iranians are already in the streets over this. Their incompetence killed their own people. The US only had to say "Boo!"

[PluggyRug]

herbie herbie:

Orange Man started this shit.

Nope...Soleimani started this shit, orange man responded.

Soleimani is now with 72 virginians.

[Freakinoldguy]

herbie herbie:

Orange Man started this shit.
And the exact reason you claim as proof it was intentionally shot down is the exact reason they wouldn't. Aside from having nothing to gain internationally
--they just showed their incompetence to the world. And worse to their own people! If their commanders are so inept they can't tell an airliner from a cruise missile and which direction something is flying, then obviously the USA can kick the living shit out of Iran in like four minutes.
Iranians are already in the streets over this. Their incompetence killed their own people. The US only had to say "Boo!"

Nope Orange man didn't start this shit. Iran or the Revolutionary Guard started this shit by sending a General to Iraq to orchestrate attacks on Americans in the Middle East. Do you honestly think he'd have been attacked if he hadn't been in Baghdad or was there for peace talks? So, all Trump did was follow the US gov'ts well used game plan which, is to take out terrorists, take out leaders of countries we don't like and ferment instability in the region for their and their allies gain.


But if you're against Orange Man's policies how about this?



Incompetence aside, either the Iranian regime or the Revolutionary Guard who, when push comes to shove answer to no one in Iran likely thought that by shooting down an airliner they could blame the US/Israel/Saudi Arabia and turn world opinion against them. Or, there could have been people on that plane who the regime wanted gone. But either way I still remain extremely skeptical that it was a just a sad "accident".

Although, I don't think anyone in power ever expected this outpouring of rage by their own citizens over their actions because, had they known what was to come they'd never have shot it down. But then again, when you're the ruling class in an oligarchy you don't expect anyone to question your actions or actually come out in a visible and vocal manner against them. So, we might get a bonus out of the Revolutionary Guards pathetic actions and that's regime change. Turning Iran from a radical Islamic state back to a Western-oriented secular modern nation that allows some degree of cultural freedom. Or, at the very least it could slow them down when it comes to creating more proxy wars or using other proxy's to attack western troops in the region.

[Tricks]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Iran or the Revolutionary Guard started this shit by sending a General to Iraq to orchestrate attacks on Americans in the Middle East.

While that is likely what he was doing, we have been presented with zero evidence that's the case. Neither has congress. Currently there has been no justification other than his past activities. Which honestly is probably justification enough for a lot of people, but lets not spread the misinformation the white house is trying to do until they actually present the evidence.

[PluggyRug]

Tricks Tricks:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Iran or the Revolutionary Guard started this shit by sending a General to Iraq to orchestrate attacks on Americans in the Middle East.

While that is likely what he was doing, we have been presented with zero evidence that's the case. Neither has congress. Currently there has been no justification other than his past activities. Which honestly is probably justification enough for a lot of people, but lets not spread the misinformation the white house is trying to do until they actually present the evidence.

I don't think it's a question of why the plane was shot down.
But why this plane was shot down.

[N_Fiddledog]

So turns out Trump was right about another one and his loudest haters were wrong. There was no genocide in Syria when he pulled US forces back from the threat of confrontation there and there was no WW III here when he took out a terrorist to show Iran the red-line at killing Americans and attacking American embassies.

Would anybody like to step forward and admit the obvious - they were wrong. Anybody? Bueller...Bueller...

[CharlesAnthony]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

So turns out Trump was right about another one and his loudest haters were wrong.

Is that not amazing?!? He must be highly "intelligent" as he said before he was elected.

There could not possibly any funny buisiness going on since he and his friends were right so soon without ever doing an investigation......... could there??????

[Thanos]

Defense Secretary says there's no evidence that Iran was going to do more "attacks" on embassies, showing that the Trump Regime is (once again) lying about the pressing "need" to assassinate Soleimani:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... ani-killed

$1:

The Trump administration has given ever-changing answers about its reasons for deciding to kill Iranian military leader Qassem Soleimani, first claiming that the leader posed an “imminent threat” to the US, before suggesting that maybe the threat wasn’t so imminent after all.

The rationale took a new turn Friday evening when President Donald Trump gave Fox News’ Laura Ingraham what has been perhaps the most definitive answer so far on what the threat was; according to the president, Soleimani was planning attacks on “four US embassies,” including the one in Baghdad, which faced violent protests on New Year’s Eve.

But the president’s assertion about the four embassies has already begun to unravel, in part due to efforts by his top defense officials Sunday to string together a consistent narrative justifying Soleimani’s killing.

Defense Secretary Mark Esper further muddied the issue Sunday morning on Face the Nation. Esper said that while he “believed” that there “probably, could have been attacks” that put Americans in the Middle East in immediate danger, he “didn’t see” specific intelligence indicating an imminent attack on multiple embassies, an odd statement given that, as secretary of defense, Esper ought to have seen such intelligence, if it exists.

They killed Soleimani to distract from impeachment. And Trump didn't care at all about the consequences to others (US military/diplomatic personnel, Iraqi civilians caught in the crossfire, Iranian civilians being killed, airliner shot down) any more than he's given a damn about consequences to others any other time in his entire life.

[Freakinoldguy]

Tricks Tricks:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Iran or the Revolutionary Guard started this shit by sending a General to Iraq to orchestrate attacks on Americans in the Middle East.

While that is likely what he was doing, we have been presented with zero evidence that's the case. Neither has congress. Currently there has been no justification other than his past activities. Which honestly is probably justification enough for a lot of people, but lets not spread the misinformation the white house is trying to do until they actually present the evidence.

Like you say, it'll be interesting to see if we ever get the truth about why the General was in Iraq, what his activities really entailed or why the Qud's Force despite years of training can't tell the difference between an incoming cruise missile and a departing jet liner.

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

They killed Soleimani to distract from impeachment. And Trump didn't care at all about the consequences to others (US military/diplomatic personnel, Iraqi civilians caught in the crossfire, Iranian civilians being killed, airliner shot down) any more than he's given a damn about consequences to others any other time in his entire life.

Well...since we're pretending we can read Donald's mind I'm going to put my fingertips to my temple and say he could care less about this phony impeachment. In fact, although there was no impeachment at the time because Nancy had lost her nerve and wouldn't send the articles over to the Senate, I think he was almost crossing his fingers hoping for it because he could use phony impeachment in his campaign as another excuse to mock the Dems. His popularity has risen under threat of impeachment. I think he's all smiles now that it looks like it's actually going to happen.

But we don't have to pretend we're mind-readers, T. The Donald will tell us himself what he means by "imminent threat" and what he thinks of this bogus impeachment:



But admit it. WW III didn't happen. You were wrong.

[Thanos]

Meanwhile, back at the Great Kingdom's outhouse, things continue to pile up:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/11/politics ... index.html

$1:

(CNN)More than a dozen Saudi servicemen training at US military installations will be expelled from the United States after a review that followed the deadly shooting last month at a Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida, multiple sources told CNN.

The Saudis are not accused of aiding the 21-year-old Saudi Air Force second lieutenant who killed three American sailors in the December shooting, two sources said, but some are said to have connections to extremist movements, according to a person familiar with the situation.

A number are also accused of possessing child pornography, according to a defense official and the person familiar with the situation. The FBI and Justice Department declined to comment.

"In the wake of the Pensacola tragedy, the Department of Defense restricted to classroom training programs foreign military students from Saudi Arabia while we conducted a review and enhancement of our foreign student vetting procedures," said Lt. Col. Robert Carver, a spokesman for the Department of Defense. "That training pause is still in place while we implement new screening and security measures."

About a dozen Saudi trainees at the Pensacola base had been confined to their quarters as the FBI investigated the shooting as a potential terror attack, and the Pentagon initiated a review of all Saudi military trainees in the country, numbering around 850 students.

The Justice Department is expected to conclude that the Pensacola shooting was in fact an act of terrorism, according to a US official.

So, American vetting procedures conveniently fall apart altogether when it comes to the degenerate and terrorist-connected citizens of America's Best Friend In The Whole Wide World? Sounds good, fam. Meanwhile, all across the right-wing-o-sphere, the drooling lust for war with the other guys on the opposite side of the big lake continues because...



PS - there are Trump properties in both Saudi Arabia and Israel, but none in Iran. That's all anyone needs to know about the hows, whys, and what's gonna happen later.

[herbie]

No that's too obvious! Are you saying Trump's that shallow?

[Thanos]

Ayuh.