[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Regardless of the side effects vaccines can have, the consequences of not getting the vaccine are generally worse.

Depends. People with acute latex sensitivity (who are often pro-vaccination health care workers) can die from injections of vaccines with latex in them.

Death being a side effect that would be worse than the flu.

Myself, I do not have a latex sensitivity so latex in a vaccine or other medication is not a concern for me.

Some who have egg sensitivities can also have bad reactions. There are alternative vaccines for both.

But putting a vaccine skeptic in charge of a review of a totally debunked medical study is no reason to "Make Polio Great Again".

[ShepherdsDog]

It'll be terrific polio under Trump. The best polio ever.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But putting a vaccine skeptic in charge of a review of a totally debunked medical study is no reason to "Make Polio Great Again".

I've noticed a recurring theme from your side of the spectrum in that anyone who doesn't agree with 100% of the orthodoxy you support is painted as denying the entirety of a particular subject. You people are like the Scientologists in that anyone not proselytizing the dogma du jour is treated as a heretic.

I don't know what medical study you're referring to but the 'totally debunked' assertion is obviously flawed.

That said...

I don't like a risky preservative in my medicines if I can avoid it. You and the peanut gallery here then ridicule me as if I deny that most vaccines are safe and I don't. Each has risks and I recognize them and accept some of the risks while rejecting others.

I've had the polio vaccine and I don't know of too many deleterious side effects associated with the dead virus vaccine.

I don't care to expose myself to mercury in any concentration if I can avoid it and I go so far as to avoid sea food from the SF Bay Area due to the naturally occurring high levels of mercury in the area. I can easily avoid mercury in my medications these days so I enjoy that option whenever possible.

I haven't taken a flu shot since 2008 and I also haven't had the flu or a sinus infection since then. Not even my GP at Kaiser is arguing this one with me. It's a personal choice on my part and I've decided that the risk of contracting the flu seems to increase if I have a flu shot and I've decided not to have the flu shot. My wife, OTOH, continues to take the shot and also continues to get sick every year and then she gets mad at me because I don't get sick.

I also refuse to take more than one vaccine at a time. If I can avoid a fatal synergistic reaction by simply spreading my vaccines out over a week or so then it seems a reasonable precaution. Japan and France have both banned the combined MMR vaccine and instead immunize for all three diseases over a period of time.

It doesn't make them 'anti-vaxxers' or 'skeptics' because they recognize a documented problem and they're taking a reasonable step to mitigate the side effects of the vaccines while still using vaccinations.

Note that I do not at all side with the liberal practitioners of holistic medicine who oppose all vaccines because they believe that people are safer without them.

Because polio.

My approach to vaccines and mercury exposure with a mind to reducing my risks is found in other areas of my life.

I don't travel to Honduras because of the risk of getting murdered. I avoid running red lights in busy intersections. I avoid Somali restaurants. I keep my fire extinguishers up to date every year. I check the batteries on my smoke and carbon monoxide detectors. My water heater is secured against seismic events. I keep separate backups of my computer files. I sometimes carry a pistol. I typically avoid areas where it's advisable to carry a pistol. &tc.

But if you want to embrace all of these risks then do so.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I haven't taken a flu shot since 2008 and I also haven't had the flu or a sinus infection since then. Not even my GP at Kaiser is arguing this one with me. It's a personal choice on my part and I've decided that the risk of contracting the flu seems to increase if I have a flu shot and I've decided not to have the flu shot. My wife, OTOH, continues to take the shot and also continues to get sick every year and then she gets mad at me because I don't get sick.

I used to get the flu every winter to the point it would infect my lungs.Sometimes twice. I was blown away when the doctor told me I had "walking pneumonia."Several years ago I started taking the flu shot and haven't had the flu since. No more bronchitis or pneumonia. I'm a believer.

[Lemmy]

s:

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But putting a vaccine skeptic in charge of a review of a totally debunked medical study is no reason to "Make Polio Great Again".

I've noticed a recurring theme from your side of the spectrum in that anyone who doesn't agree with 100% of the orthodoxy you support is painted as denying the entirety of a particular subject. You people are like the Scientologists in that anyone not proselytizing the dogma du jour is treated as a heretic.

I don't know what medical study you're referring to but the 'totally debunked' assertion is obviously flawed.

Ahh, young Padowan. Still much to learn, you have.

See, there was this English doctor, Andrew Wakefield, who did a study linking vaccinating children to childhood Autism. Except, as it turns out, it wasn't a real study, it was a fake that he concocted in order to win a civil suit against a drug company. But the anti-science Jenny McCarthy types latched on to it, and that caused untold suffering as people stopped vaccinating their children.

Multiple studies had to be done in order to debunk Mr. Wakefield (not Doctor, he was stripped of that title).

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

So when I say 'debunked', it's once again, because there is a great deal of scientific evidence showing that my assertions are far from flawed. When I say that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is a 'denier', it is therefore with good cause. One single fraudulent study that Mr. Kennedy continues to believe in, is trumped by the power of medicine by virtue of multiple real studies and real world data to obilterate that fake study.

He can believe in the evidence, or he can deny it. Now do you understand why asking him, or anyone, to leading a study to support a fraudulent study is insanity?

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

That said...

I don't like a risky preservative in my medicines if I can avoid it. You and the peanut gallery here then ridicule me as if I deny that most vaccines are safe and I don't. Each has risks and I recognize them and accept some of the risks while rejecting others.

I've had the polio vaccine and I don't know of too many deleterious side effects associated with the dead virus vaccine.

Ridicule is not my intention. Education is, and once again I must educate. No one has doubted that vaccines carry risk. But disease carries greater risk.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I don't care to expose myself to mercury in any concentration if I can avoid it and I go so far as to avoid sea food from the SF Bay Area due to the naturally occurring high levels of mercury in the area. I can easily avoid mercury in my medications these days so I enjoy that option whenever possible.
. . .

I make the sarcastic link between Sodium, Chlorine and common Table Salt for the same reason I've made it many time before, in the hope that one time it might turn on the lightbulb over your head.

An element does not share the chemical properties of itself when it's contained in a compound! When you mix chlorine and sodium, it becomes table salt, and no longer kills you when you smell it, nor does it explode when you put it in water.

The same goes with Mercury. Avoiding it in fish is a good idea. But when it's in a compound like Thimesorol, it is not longer a heavy metal poison like the element Mercury is. Stop thinking they are the same!

And stop thinking that Doctors and other medical professionals would give you a compound that showed any hint that it will cause harm, when the first oath they take is to do no harm! The absurdity of it conflicts with the intelligent person we know you to be.

[Thanos]

You could also simply go with the reality that the Kennedy's are some of the worst bullshit artists to ever come down the pike so if one of them is spouting off about vaccinations then the smart thing to do is the exact opposite of what he's suggesting. Bobby Jr. is also the one who comes to Alberta once a year to push to get the oilsands shut down completely, so there's also that to consider when it comes to understanding what a fucking flake this guy really is.

[BRAH]

Thanos Thanos:

You could also simply go with the reality that the Kennedy's are some of the worst bullshit artists to ever come down the pike so if one of them is spouting off about vaccinations then the smart thing to do is the exact opposite of what he's suggesting. Bobby Jr. is also the one who comes to Alberta once a year to push to get the oilsands shut down completely, so there's also that to consider when it comes to understanding what a fucking flake this guy really is.

Bobby Kennedy like Hanoi Jane comes to Alberta bashing the oil sands in cars, planes running on fuel made from Donald Trump Jr's bowl of Skittles.

[DrCaleb]

A good write up on the whole MMR debacle is here:

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full

[Thanos]

Yes, Jane was in Alberta this week, trying to enlighted all us folk that have fallen to the dark side. What a treat it was too.

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

Yes, Jane was in Alberta this week, trying to enlighted all us folk that have fallen to the dark side. What a treat it was too.

You have to admit though, for pushing 80, she's still a looker!

[Thanos]

Good article here on Bobby Jr's mendacity and how he and his group deliberately mangles statements by doctors to promote their child-killing anti-science agenda:

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/how-rob ... e-science/

$1:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said Tuesday that he will head up a panel on vaccine safety for Donald Trump.

The president-elect later walked that back, saying that he is "exploring the possibility" of forming a panel on autism, but "no decisions have been made."

Let's hope Trump drops any idea of a vaccine panel headed by Kennedy. For more than a decade, Kennedy has promoted anti-vaccine propaganda completely unconnected to reality. If Kennedy's panel leads to even a small decline in vaccine rates across the country, it will result in the waste of untold amounts of money and, in all likelihood, the preventable deaths of infants too young to be vaccinated.

That wasted money will largely affect public health departments, whose budgets are already strained. A 2010 study in Pediatrics calculated the public sector expenses of containing a measles outbreak in which 11 children were infected at $124,517, an average of more than $10,000 per infection. That's not to say that families won't be affected as well: During that outbreak, 48 children too young to be vaccinated had to be quarantined at an average cost of $775 per family; medical costs for one infant who was infected were close to $15,000.

But those costs pale into comparison to the loss that will be felt by families who lose children to vaccine-preventable diseases, which typically strike when children are infected while still too young to be vaccinated.

Take pertussis, more commonly known as whooping cough. There have been several dramatic spikes in pertussis infections in the past decade, and in 2012 there were 48,277 reported cases in the US - the most since 1955. More than 87 percent of all of the country's pertussis deaths from 2000 to 2014 were in infants younger than 3 months, which meant they were too young to have gotten their first pertussis shot.

Kennedy made his name in the anti-vaccine movement in 2005, when he published a story alleging a massive conspiracy regarding thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative that had been removed from all childhood vaccines except for some variations of the flu vaccine in 2001. In his piece, Kennedy completely ignored an Institute of Medicine immunization safety review on thimerosal published the previous year; he's also ignored the nine studies funded or conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that have taken place since 2003.

I first wrote about Kennedy and his foray into the anti-vaccine movement in "The Panic Virus," my book about the persistence of the myth that vaccines can cause autism. Below is a lightly edited version of my chapter on Kennedy, titled "A Conspiracy of Dunces."

While Kennedy has been brazen in publicizing outright lies, he appears to be less loquacious when faced with skeptical reporters. I attempted to contact Kennedy more than 20 times over an 18-month period. At various points, I was told that he was considering my interview request, that he was on vacation, that he was dealing with a family crisis, that he wasn't feeling well, that he was behind in his emails, and that he was on the verge of calling me back. (He never did.)

And this evil hippie motherfucker, fresh out of jail here in Alberta for killing his sick son with a bunch of bullshit "holistic remedies", is already back at it flogging garbage supplements to the hip dickheads out there:

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/dad-who ... fter-jail/

$1:

A man who spent four months in jail for treating his deathly ill son with natural remedies instead of medicine is back to pushing his family’s nutritional supplements — which they claim treats mental illness.

David Stephan and his wife were convicted last year of failing to provide the necessities of life to their 19-month-old son, Ezekial, who died nearly five years ago.

The 33-year-old Stephan appeared Tuesday at a health food store in Prince George, British Columbia, where he promoted EMPowerplus, a nutritional supplement developed by a company co-founded by his father, reported CBC.

Truehope Nutritional Support describes EMPowerplus, which is basically a mixture of vitamins and minerals, as “a natural alternative to pharmaceutical medications” that can be used to manage bipolar disorder, ADD/ADHD and stress.

Critics say the company’s claims about the supplement are not backed by reliable scientific testing, and Truehope has threatened to sue a mental health writer who wrote critically about her experience buying and taking the supplement.

Health Canada issued warnings about EMPowerplus in 2003 and 2007, and the government department unsuccessfully sued in 2004 to stop the company from distributing the product in Canada.

Truehope was found not guilty in 2006 of distributing the supplement without a drug identification number.

Stephan’s appearance at Ave Maria provoked controversy, but the store’s owner asked critics not to judge the nutritional supplement against the Alberta man’s conviction in connection with his son’s death.

“Who are we to say, because these are two different things – what happened to his child and his work itself are two different activities,” said store owner David Fuller. “Who are we to not be compassionate to that and not be merciful? Here’s a man and his livelihood is affected.”

Fuller said his customers enjoyed Stephan’s health and nutrition seminars in the past and hoped he would return.

“He’s very knowledgeable, and we had requests from our customers to bring David back,” Fuller said. “Although we had concerns in light of the case last summer that there might be issues, at some point we have to accept the fact that people have made mistakes.”

The 33-year-old Stephan and his wife, Collet, did not seek medical attention for their toddler son until he fell unconscious, and instead tried to treat the boy’s illness with natural remedies such as maple syrup, apple cider vinegar, horseradish root, hot peppers, onion, garlic and ginger root.

Prosecutors said the couple also administered EMPowerplus to the dying boy.

The child was airlifted to a hospital after he stopped breathing, but he died five days later from bacterial meningitis.

Fuller hoped critics would keep an open mind about Stephan and the products he sells.

“Our store has products for people’s body, mind and soul,” Fuller said. “We want people to get results. This product gets results for people, David Stephan is a representative of that company, and we hope that he continues to help people improve their health and offers an alternative to pharmaceutical medication that doesn’t always work.”

Stephan has said he believes the government prosecuted him and his wife to force parents through the courts — instead of through legislation — to vaccinate their children.

Stephan and his wife, who was sentenced to house arrest, are appealing their conviction.

Like I've said all along, the true menace to humanity isn't the actively evil people because they really aren't that great in number. It's the stupid ones, like these fucking idiots, who are beyond legion in number. Grrrrrr.......

[Lemmy]

j

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I haven't taken a flu shot since 2008 and I also haven't had the flu or a sinus infection since then. Not even my GP at Kaiser is arguing this one with me. It's a personal choice on my part and I've decided that the risk of contracting the flu seems to increase if I have a flu shot and I've decided not to have the flu shot. My wife, OTOH, continues to take the shot and also continues to get sick every year and then she gets mad at me because I don't get sick.

I used to get the flu every winter to the point it would infect my lungs.Sometimes twice. I was blown away when the doctor told me I had "walking pneumonia."Several years ago I started taking the flu shot and haven't had the flu since. No more bronchitis or pneumonia. I'm a believer.

And then I believe you should have the flu shot. Period.

(but avoid the mercury if you have that option available because why take it if you don't have to?)

[Lemmy]

b