[commanderkai]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

This isn't a secret. Read, for example, the piece by Condoleeza Rice in the latest Foreign Policy and you can see that it is, in fact, official policy of the US to expand its influence globally, militarily if necessary. Also, I've read some history, particularly British rule of Palestine and Iraq and American operations in Iran--so I do not assume the benificence of the US.

And that's where the propaganda lies--in assuming that the US only conquers, kills, occupies, imprisons and tortures for "good." Or in the assumption that a nation that has been at war more times and has invaded more nations than virtually any other is "peaceful." It's power, pure and simple. Power at the point of the gun--as true for Osama bin Laden as it is for George W. Bush.

In my opinion anyways.

Actually isn't it true that Britain, France, and Russia have been in more wars in the 20th century than the US? I've read that somewhere.

Anyway, I've never said the United States is selfless...I never assume any nation is. The United States is acting in its own best interests, which is the rule of the game.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but nothing connects directly with the article.

The article states that nation A (Saudi Arabia) is literally comparing humans to animals, which is something the Nazis did to Jews no? I've studied history too, and if Saudi Arabia can go out, calling themselves this and that, and funding Muslim religious institutions in the United States while it calls Christians and Jews apes and pigs (and these are the religions that they grouped themselves with, I wonder what they wrote about Hindus or pagans or atheists) while at the same time putting up a front like this, should be confronted.

Sure they're acting in their own self interest. They were doing the same by riling up their populations after the Danish cartoons, which were mild at best. If they believe they can go nuts and condemn Denmark for those cartoons, while at the same time go around in official textbooks for children calling Christians and Jews apes and pigs...there's no issue for you at all?

[ziggy]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

Saladin must not be alive and well.

He kicked some christian ass for sure.

Just trying to figure out where all the hate started.They never taught this part of history in the school I attended.

[Mustang1]

commanderkai commanderkai:

The article states that nation A (Saudi Arabia) is literally comparing humans to animals, which is something the Nazis did to Jews no? I've studied history too, and if Saudi Arabia can go out, calling themselves this and that, and funding Muslim religious institutions in the United States while it calls Christians and Jews apes and pigs (and these are the religions that they grouped themselves with, I wonder what they wrote about Hindus or pagans or atheists) while at the same time putting up a front like this, should be confronted.

Sure they're acting in their own self interest. They were doing the same by riling up their populations after the Danish cartoons, which were mild at best. If they believe they can go nuts and condemn Denmark for those cartoons, while at the same time go around in official textbooks for children calling Christians and Jews apes and pigs...there's no issue for you at all?

I don't think that any rational Westerner is condoning the garbage that the article asserts is in these textbooks/curriculum, but let's be brutally realistic here and realize that these is NOT exclusive to Saudi Arabia. Japan denies or glosses over its WWII atrocities. Russia's got problems with propaganda, China is hardly fair to Taiwan or Tibet and even the United State's history books have been awash with outright propaganda and revisionism.

The point is that you can only deal with so many nations regarding these injustices. No one is supporting them, but how will you fix it? Deal with Japan? Good luck. China? Saudi Arabia? The list will grow and next you'll be addressing the Balkans, Argentina (post war ratlines and they're coverage in history), etc, but let's be pragmatic. As Western tenets of tolerance, liberalism, intellectualism and secularism creep across the globe, some of these nations may confront their societal hangups and successfully purge these incitement issues, but it does take time.

[commanderkai]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

I don't think that any rational Westerner is condoning the garbage that the article asserts is in these textbooks/curriculum, but let's be brutally realistic here and realize that these is NOT exclusive to Saudi Arabia. Japan denies or glosses over its WWII atrocities. Russia's got problems with propaganda, China is hardly fair to Taiwan or Tibet and even the United State's history books have been awash with outright propaganda and revisionism.

The point is that you can only deal with so many nations regarding these injustices. No one is supporting them, but how will you fix it? Deal with Japan? Good luck. China? Saudi Arabia? The list will grow and next you'll be addressing the Balkans, Argentina (post war ratlines and they're coverage in history), etc, but let's be pragmatic. As Western tenets of tolerance, liberalism, intellectualism and secularism creep across the globe, some of these nations may confront their societal hangups and successfully purge these incitement issues, but it does take time.

I agree with your assessment, but glossing over history, like what probably every nation in the world does, and then having this. If US textbooks called Arabs camel jockeys or sandniggers or whatever else...how would rational people react to that?

There's a thin line between glossing over and revisionism, and then what they did. Calling large swaths of people animals, and completely dehumanizing them is something very, very dangerous. I don't care if they call Israel their enemy or America the Great Satan, but calling Christians and Jews apes and pigs just seems too close to what Hitler did to the Jews.

[CanAm1]

The dehumanizing of people leads to the ability to kill with impunity and without concious reflection on your actions. It is the way all militaries of the world train their troops, this must be their military in training.

[Mustang1]

commanderkai commanderkai:

I agree with your assessment, but glossing over history, like what probably every nation in the world does, and then having this. If US textbooks called Arabs camel jockeys or sandniggers or whatever else...how would rational people react to that?

How is that much different than Quebec schools intimating the horrific nature of the Anglaise or Serbs dehumanizing Croats (or the reverse) or some North American Native groups using emotional rhetoric like "genocide" or the decedents of Nanking's victims being disregarded. You're upset over semantics.

$1:

There's a thin line between glossing over and revisionism, and then what they did. Calling large swaths of people animals, and completely dehumanizing them is something very, very dangerous.

I agree, but revisionism, as i've already stated, is hardly exclusive to Saudi Arabia. How is denying the Rape of Nanking, for instance, not a dehumanizing action?

$1:

I don't care if they call Israel their enemy or America the Great Satan, but calling Christians and Jews apes and pigs just seems too close to what Hitler did to the Jews.

Again, semantics, what's the difference between calling someone a derogatory slur and labeling someone else "Satan"? I agree that it's pretty heinous and anti-intellectual but it's not exactly rare and besides, aren't you already guilty of it, but invoking the inevitable "Hitler" comparison?

[Blue_Nose]

In other breaking news, trees are still green and water is still wet.

[BartSimpson]

ziggy ziggy:

Wasnt it the cristians who first attacked the muslims before the crusades?

No. It wasn't.

[ziggy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

ziggy ziggy:

Wasnt it the cristians who first attacked the muslims before the crusades?

No. It wasn't.

Well,all I got is the movie heaven or hell to go on so point me in the right direction for an unbiased account of who threw the first stone,goat turd or egg.

I did the united church thing when I moved west but pretty well forgot most of the bible these last few years.
I dont remember the muslims or Saladin in it though.
Getting old.