[Brenda]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Brenda Brenda:

Just out of curiosity... From what I gather, you Gunnair, and you EB, basicly expect all men to serve, right? Even if it was just for basic training to see if you are fit to serve, they should, right?

What about women? Do you expect all women to serve (or at least do the basic training) too?

I don't expect all to serve - the military is not for everyone. That being said, I think it would be great. Do basic and carry on after that - join or don't. Men and woman, gay and straight white and not. Good experience.

Everyone should have a taste of what they expect their military to go out and do.

No, I know it's not for everyone, that's why I added the basic training, and see where you end up.

That is how it was in The Netherlands till about 15, 20 years ago. My brother was one of the last to go to mandatory training (14 months). It was only the men though.
There was one thing that I found not so good... You could be called AGAIN to go for another year or something (before you were 35 or something). That means your boss has to find someone else to do your job because you had to go to something you didnt even want to be. AND they could send you abroad

[fifeboy]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

On the other hand there are plenty of white guys who do. Let's accept that and stop the bullshit and excuses.

Clarify: White RURAL guys.

Let’s stop pretending that white urban guys are represented in the armed forces as well as white rural folk.

The article clearly states that they are not.

There are alot of barriers for non-whites joining the forces. The fact that you trumpet white folks and casually omit the fact that urban folk are just as unlikely to join the forces is one example of the subtle racism that prevents recruitment and retention if the minorities.

Why would I join the army to listen to you tell me how under-represented us natives are?? No thanks. My grandfather fought and was wounded beside your grandfathers in WW2 and what thanks did he get? It was not the same thanks as the white guys got.

Lots of barriers. You have to change your own attitudes before more non-white Canadians will feel like they fit into the Canadian forces.

Stereotyping and blaming us is not going to make many of us want to put up with the bullshit of living and working beside you.

This article gives the impression that they are talking about all Canadian wars. It starts with "For decades, Remembrance Day was about honouring the ever more distant memory of Canadians killed in the two world wars and in Korea."

I am not from North West Saskatchewan, but I lived there for 30 years. I have known quite a few of the local "non monias" population that served in the CF. Many of the elders of the community I lived in were vets of WW2 or Korea. I think this article is disrespectful of their contribution.


The group photograph above is of men from Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan who enlisted in the Canadian army on June 25, 1940, and served in the Regina Rifles Regiment between 1 September 1941 and 7 November 1945.
The Metis men in the rear ranks are: L/Cpl. George Landry (2nd from left), Rfn. E.A. Nault (3rd from left), Rfn. William Nault (4th from left), Rfn. Frederick Gladue (6th from left) Rfn. P. Lariviere (7th from left) The Metis men in the front ranks are: Rfn. James O. Beaudry (1st on left), Rfn. John Baptiste Morin (3rd from left) Rfn. Joseph John Marion (4th from left), Rfn. Charles Louis Morasty (Merasty) (5th from left) L/Sgt. Conrad Rene Fleury (8th from left) Rfn. John Theodore Fiddler (3rd from right), Rfn. Angus Falcon (2nd from right).

[fifeboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Well, for starters, Status Indians were not allowed to vote in Canada until 1960, so whose "freedom" were they really fighting for at the time?


And then there were issues with veterans benefits after the war:

Inequalities became commonplace as First Nations veterans did not receive equal access to benefits information, equal dependents allowance benefits and were greatly disadvantaged by land compensation outlined in the Veterans' Land Act. While non-Aboriginal veterans were promised $6,000 and the prospect of purchasing land through the Government of Canada, First Nations veterans were promised only a maximum of $2,320, and they were more or less confined to farming on reserve lands, with no real ownership.

In addition, First Nations veterans faced hardships in securing other benefits, such as a re-establishment credit, vocational training benefits or university education benefits. During the war, Indian agents often withheld full dependents allowances from the spouses of enlisted Aboriginal soldiers because it was believed that "Indian women did not know how to spend money correctly."

I think the main points have already been identified in this thread:

1) Military service is less attractive and less relevant to people white and non-white alike, who live in large urban areas where there is generally ample opportunity for goodaying jobs and a wide-spread attachment to the urban lifestyle.

2) Immigrants are less likely to view war and military service as 'glorious' or 'noble' because they come from countries where war is not something you watch on the news from the comfort of your living room, and then see re-enacted by beautiful movie stars as it is for North Americans. For them, it is something they have actually experienced first-hand, having witnessed the brutality, death and suffering it inflicts on innocent civilians. To them, war means watching your family get gang-raped and hacked up with machetes, or watching your family suffer from disease and starvation in a refugee camp. Furthermore, where they come from, soldiers and police officers are not heroes but brutal, corrupt and poorly paid enforcers of oppression and cruelty. They come here with dreams that their children will grow up to be doctors and engineers, not soliders.

Thanks for this. It kept me from having to write it. Good work!

[PENATRATOR]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

On the other hand there are plenty of white guys who do. Let's accept that and stop the bullshit and excuses.

Clarify: White RURAL guys.

Let’s stop pretending that white urban guys are represented in the armed forces as well as white rural folk.

The article clearly states that they are not.

There are alot of barriers for non-whites joining the forces. The fact that you trumpet white folks and casually omit the fact that urban folk are just as unlikely to join the forces is one example of the subtle racism that prevents recruitment and retention if the minorities.

Why would I join the army to listen to you tell me how under-represented us natives are?? No thanks. My grandfather fought and was wounded beside your grandfathers in WW2 and what thanks did he get? It was not the same thanks as the white guys got.

Lots of barriers. You have to change your own attitudes before more non-white Canadians will feel like they fit into the Canadian forces.

Stereotyping and blaming us is not going to make many of us want to put up with the bullshit of living and working beside you.

This article gives the impression that they are talking about all Canadian wars. It starts with "For decades, Remembrance Day was about honouring the ever more distant memory of Canadians killed in the two world wars and in Korea."

I am not from North West Saskatchewan, but I lived there for 30 years. I have known quite a few of the local "non monias" population that served in the CF. Many of the elders of the community I lived in were vets of WW2 or Korea. I think this article is disrespectful of their contribution.


The group photograph above is of men from Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan who enlisted in the Canadian army on June 25, 1940, and served in the Regina Rifles Regiment between 1 September 1941 and 7 November 1945.
The Metis men in the rear ranks are: L/Cpl. George Landry (2nd from left), Rfn. E.A. Nault (3rd from left), Rfn. William Nault (4th from left), Rfn. Frederick Gladue (6th from left) Rfn. P. Lariviere (7th from left) The Metis men in the front ranks are: Rfn. James O. Beaudry (1st on left), Rfn. John Baptiste Morin (3rd from left) Rfn. Joseph John Marion (4th from left), Rfn. Charles Louis Morasty (Merasty) (5th from left) L/Sgt. Conrad Rene Fleury (8th from left) Rfn. John Theodore Fiddler (3rd from right), Rfn. Angus Falcon (2nd from right).

Well done troops thank you for your service, to bad Brasco does not share your sense of patriotism

[fifeboy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I don't expect all to serve - the military is not for everyone.

But you call those who don't cowards?

[fifeboy]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Well done troops thank you for your service, to bad Brasco does not share your sense of patriotism

So, you are saying that everyone who is not serving is not patriotic? Great ploy to get more support for the war.

[PENATRATOR]

fifeboy fifeboy:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Well done troops thank you for your service, to bad Brasco does not share your sense of patriotism

So, you are saying that everyone who is not serving is not patriotic? Great ploy to get more support for the war.

No, not at all, but if you want to put words in my mouth, how about "Go fuck yourself" That work for you?

[EyeBrock]

Those that serve put their lives on the line for Canada.

Others can contribute and support our society and merit the term 'patriot'.

But the warriors are those who spill their blood for our country. I think they deserve special recognition.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria et mori.

[EyeBrock]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

On the other hand there are plenty of white guys who do. Let's accept that and stop the bullshit and excuses.

Clarify: White RURAL guys.

Let’s stop pretending that white urban guys are represented in the armed forces as well as white rural folk.

The article clearly states that they are not.

There are alot of barriers for non-whites joining the forces. The fact that you trumpet white folks and casually omit the fact that urban folk are just as unlikely to join the forces is one example of the subtle racism that prevents recruitment and retention if the minorities.

Why would I join the army to listen to you tell me how under-represented us natives are?? No thanks. My grandfather fought and was wounded beside your grandfathers in WW2 and what thanks did he get? It was not the same thanks as the white guys got.

Lots of barriers. You have to change your own attitudes before more non-white Canadians will feel like they fit into the Canadian forces.

Stereotyping and blaming us is not going to make many of us want to put up with the bullshit of living and working beside you.

More boo-hooing from the master of "my grandad wasn't liked as much as your grandad."

Typical.

My parents are from Eire. They and generations before them suffered discrimination and outright racism in the UK, Canada and the US.

They battled the effects of alcoholism, poverty, church and state interference and the occupation of a foreign power. Sound familiar?

The difference is we Celts and Gaels moved on and moved up while Donny and his ilk stay at the bottom and continue to whine about how they are still at the bottom.

Get off your arse and stop whining and making excuses for the shite state the natives are in.

Change it just like the Irish did and still do, or go back to your default mode of blaming whitey.

[Gunnair]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I don't expect all to serve - the military is not for everyone.

But you call those who don't cowards?

No, only whiners who hide behind bad excuses on why the won't serve.

Try reading the context, it makes you look less foolish.

[Gunnair]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

fifeboy fifeboy:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Well done troops thank you for your service, to bad Brasco does not share your sense of patriotism

So, you are saying that everyone who is not serving is not patriotic? Great ploy to get more support for the war.

No, not at all, but if you want to put words in my mouth, how about "Go fuck yourself" That work for you?

Zing!

[fifeboy]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

fifeboy fifeboy:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Well done troops thank you for your service, to bad Brasco does not share your sense of patriotism

So, you are saying that everyone who is not serving is not patriotic? Great ploy to get more support for the war.

No, not at all, but if you want to put words in my mouth, how about "Go fuck yourself" That work for you?

Nope, don't talk like that, so perhaps you can enlighten us as to what you "really" meant.

[fifeboy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

More boo-hooing from the master of 12 "my grandad wasn't liked as much as your grandad."

Typical.

My parents are from Eire. They and generations before them suffered discrimination and outright racism in the UK, Canada and the US.

They battled the effects of alcoholism, poverty, church and state interference and the occupation of a foreign power. Sound familiar?

The difference is we Celts and Gaels moved on and moved up while Donny and his ilk stay at the bottom and continue to whine about how they are still at the bottom.

Get off your arse and stop whining and making excuses for the shite state the natives are in.

Change it just like the Irish did and still do, or go back to your default mode of blaming whitey.

In a way I know what you are talking about. My Mom told me that her grandmother, a good Presbyterian from Ulster, living in Hamilton, lived a good Christian life, but on 12 July, or whatever the date is?? she sent her boys out to beat up Catholics. The Irish, however, do have the Irish Republic to stand with. I think what the complaint here is that it has not been only White Men who have defended Canada, now or in the past and calling people who are not participating in a largely unpopular war cowards does not help the course of the war. I suspect you don't need a history lesson.

[EyeBrock]

Fife, my forefathers fought for a Republic. It’s now called Eire. No hard feelings towards the bloody English.

The article wasn't meant to call anybody a 'coward'. It just shows who in Canada volunteers for combat and where the poor bastards who die in the service of Canada are from.
It ‘aint Toronto.

It was posted with the sentiment of "Hey, look, white guys are actually doing something here, despite all the PC bullshit that is saying that we have been saved by immigration."

Not too many immigrants stepping up to the plate in Canada.

Not saying it’s a bad thing, it’s just what it is.


The pendulum has to swing back. Canada had a heritage and a history before mass immigration. It would be nice if that was acknowledged.

White guys actually did a lot in the building of this country and 'shock-horror', some of them were Brits and Irish, although their contributions do seem to have paled into insignificance since the Tamils ran on the highway and the Mohawks dug up a few roads.

[Donny_Brasco]

Gunnair Gunnair:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I don't expect all to serve - the military is not for everyone.

But you call those who don't cowards?

No, only whiners who hide behind bad excuses on why the won't serve.

Try reading the context, it makes you look less foolish.

You steal our land, cheat us, take our kids, abuse and degrade us to this day...and you want me to go fight strangers for you?

With countrymen like you who needs enemies.

My measure of success is not how many foreigners I can shoot - it is measured by the number of times I can hold you and the likes of your pathetic narrow-minded trailer trash accountable for what you and your forefathers did to the aboriginal populations of this continent.

And as you can clearly see I'm not really affected by your condescending tone and your dislike of me. As a matter of fact your attitude is what pushes me to want to continue to turn the screws every single day.

I appreciate that rural white men are giving their lives for this country.

My people have given more than enough.