[Lemmy]

Dragom Dragom:

You can't help the homeless by giving them money.

Of course you can. Money can be used to buy things, can't it?

[CommanderSock]

This is not a bad move at all.

The Vancouver Regional Municipality could actually help by subsidizing the construction of housing, and hopefully keeping the prices of homes steady.

The price of accommodation in Vancouver is simply astronomical, relative to the median wages.

I'd like to see the assets and work history of many who purchase $500,000+ homes.

[BartSimpson]

sandorski sandorski:

In the '80's, all across North America Governments closed down Mental Illness facilities and turned those people onto the Streets.

To be fair, the reason this happened was because several court cases ruled (correctly, IMHO) that any person who was not a danger to themselves or others could not be imprisoned in a mental facility without their consent.

In California several state hospitals had to close and the residents were initially put on the streets...per the court orders. At the end of the 1970's California and much of the USA had implemented the use of private care homes for the mentally ill who chose to live in them. The vast majority of those homes escape public notice as they are spread out across any given city and not concentrated in one neighborhood or area.

But the fact remains that living in one of these facilities is a purely voluntary action and a good number of the mentally ill homeless do not choose to accept the rules that go along with living like this. So they are on the streets which is their choice. Yes, I feel bad for them, but the option of going back to the old system where just about anyone could be committed to a mental institution against their will is not acceptable to me.

I think of Rosemary Kennedy, a spirited young woman who rejected the rule of her powerful father and he had her sent to an insane asylum and then had her lobotomized. The current state of US law makes such atrocities impossible and I think I'd rather accept the fact of some people choosing to be homeless than to go back to a system where people were committed for reasons that often had little to do with their mental state.

[andyt]

Dragom Dragom:

Guys, the poor can't make spending decisions very well. That is why they are poor.

This housing isn't for poor people, it's for people way beyond that, who don't function. But to say someone at a minimum wage job is poor because they can't manage money well is bullshit.

[Dragom]

andy, I make minimum wage. I make good spending decisions. I am not poor. So says my 300$ of discretionary income.

[andyt]

Dragom Dragom:

andy, I make minimum wage. I make good spending decisions. I am not poor. So says my 300$ of discretionary income.

Where do you live?

You probably clear around 1200/mo if you're working full time. So you pay rent, food, transportation, etc on 900/mo? You mustlive somewhere where rents are very low. Or, it turns out, in your parent's basement.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Dragom Dragom:

andy, I make minimum wage. I make good spending decisions. I am not poor. So says my 300$ of discretionary income.

Where do you live?

You probably clear around 1200/mo if you're working full time. So you pay rent, food, transportation, etc on 900/mo? You mustlive somewhere where rents are very low. Or, it turns out, in your parent's basement.

And no family to support...

[CommanderSock]

Dragom Dragom:

andy, I make minimum wage. I make good spending decisions. I am not poor. So says my 300$ of discretionary income.

Minimum wage, single income, + car (insurance, maintenance) + rent, + food, + necessities, on minimum wage...

I call a bluff, either you're not paying fair market rent, or you're drug dealing on the side.

A livable annual wage here in Toronto, for someone single with no cost of debt, with a car (old) is around $33,000 pre-tax. Anything less than that, and you'll be struggling to make ends meet.

[andyt]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Dragom Dragom:

andy, I make minimum wage. I make good spending decisions. I am not poor. So says my 300$ of discretionary income.

Minimum wage, single income, + car (insurance, maintenance) + rent, + food, + necessities, on minimum wage...

I call a bluff, either you're not paying fair market rent, or you're drug dealing on the side.

A livable annual wage here in Toronto, for someone single with no cost of debt, with a car (old) is around $33,000 pre-tax. Anything less than that, and you'll be struggling to make ends meet.

I agree that a living wage is a lot more than minimum. In Vancouver they say it's around $18/hr. = 37,000 a year. But, I think that is a pretty comfortable wage. You can't buy a house or condo, but you can live reasonably well and have some savings, RRSP's etc. So I thing the people that put that info out are exaggerating a bit there.

But in Vancouver, $12 = 25k a year seems to me like it should be the minimum.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

I agree that a living wage is a lot more than minimum. In Vancouver they say it's around $18/hr. = 37,000 a year. But, I think that is a pretty comfortable wage. You can't buy a house or condo, but you can live reasonably well and have some savings, RRSP's etc. So I thing the people that put that info out are exaggerating a bit there.

But in Vancouver, $12 = 25k a year seems to me like it should be the minimum.

I read an article somewhere regarding that, it makes sense for Vancouver, a city significantly more expensive than Toronto. But the article was regarding having children/dependents.

As a single person, $18/hr full time is fine. This is making big assumptions 1 - no debt (the cost of carrying debt can be crippling, esp credit card debt), 2 - No dependents (no child support alimony etc), 3 - No savings other than RRSPs.

And one can forget about taking the girl out somewhere nice ($200+ dinner).

When I first graduated I was making 30,000 in Toronto, I struggled, and I was alone. To be comfortable, at least $45-50,000, at least, should be an annual income.

[2Cdo]

I hate to see the state of these buildings after a few years! Experience has shown that these properties usually end up looking like slums in short order.

[Dragom]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Dragom Dragom:

andy, I make minimum wage. I make good spending decisions. I am not poor. So says my 300$ of discretionary income.

Minimum wage, single income, + car (insurance, maintenance) + rent, + food, + necessities, on minimum wage...

I call a bluff, either you're not paying fair market rent, or you're drug dealing on the side.

A livable annual wage here in Toronto, for someone single with no cost of debt, with a car (old) is around $33,000 pre-tax. Anything less than that, and you'll be struggling to make ends meet.

Expenses
625 rent, 2 bedroom appartment
80 Phone and internet
100 Electric (high avg)
200 food
100 smokes
1105 total

Income
1200 pay
300 rent from GF
1500 total

1500 - 1105 = 395$ (wait, were does that 95$ go?)

And I bought the GF a beat up car for 1,400 and put another 700 into fixing it. I figure she can pay the insurance because she has the license and everything.

[Brenda]

1105 is including taxes, heat, insurance, healthcare costs and whatever else costs you might have?

[Dragom]

Brenda Brenda:

1105 is including taxes, heat, insurance, healthcare costs and whatever else costs you might have?

Electric heat and that is what my finances look like.

[Lemmy]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I hate to see the state of these buildings after a few years! Experience has shown that these properties usually end up looking like slums in short order.

That's not typically a problem with government-run projects. It's the rent-controlled, privately owned subsidized ones (like the Jane-Finch brilliant idea or the South Bronx) that are run into slums.