[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

but SA was actually forced out of the Commonwealth in the 60s :

No, your own link proves your own lie.

$1:

The white minority rule government of South Africa had first withdrawn from the Commonwealth in 1961, after being pressured by member states over its apartheid policies.

It just boggles the mind how you just lie and lie and lie and lie on this board.

[N_Fiddledog]

And since 2014 in spite of everything you say Beave, my feeling is things for White South Aficans have gotten worse. In many cases horribly worse. No, I don't think they deserve it. I do think more and more white South Africans are leaving or would like to leave the country though.

[Thanos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

If you do the same thing as your former oppressors, you become the oppressor.

There was some hope when Nelson Mandela was alive. It came to an end when his successors like Thabo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma took over the role. It was one of them that basically said he didn't give a damn about the AIDS epidemic because it was only killing gays anyway, and then did little to nothing about the rape epidemic that followed when the atrocity of adult males raping little girls to keep themselves safe from AIDS erupted.

If they follow the same pattern as every other post-colonial African country did then they'll fail as badly as each one of those other states did. Chasing the intelligensia out, destroying the white-built infrastructure & governmental institutions, and engaging in land redistribution for the sake of revenge is the surest way for SA to be just another basket case.

[Wolf1412]

Well do not comment much but this is an entertaining argument. Hate to say it but both of you are in fact correct and incorrect at the same time. Now do not take my word for it but I did live in Eastern Pretoria (Tshwane) for 4 years from 2012 until 16.

Have found that people that are not familiar with SA base all their knowledge on post/news/reports that are provided by the 10% at either end of the spectrum. That being the 10% black population that wants the whites out and the 10% white population that think they are fighting some sort of genocide.

The ANC took power in 94 under Mandela and things started out fine. He only completed one term as President and when he stood down is when all hell started to break loose. Since 94 the ANC has done nothing to improve infrastructure and currently all electric, water, sewage and roads are failing. When challenged on that point they will blame apartheid to this day yet have been in power for 24 years. Since Mandela the ANC is a body filled with nepotism, corruption and scandals. They enjoy keeping the black majority uneducated as it makes it easier to fool the people and stay in power. They fuck over the people then hours before elections head out in droves with gift boxes of maize and t-shirts to all the townships and amazingly are elected again.

The ANC also instituted BEE, Black Economic Empowerment which is used to continually allow uneducated and unskilled individuals to fill positions which had been filled by educated white people. Zuma himself only had a grade 3 education.

As for the White Boers the ones that you see in the new white townships, they are all from the bottom of the employment list with little or no education themselves. The educated white population still hold the majority of high end positions in the private sector. The next highest on the list are the Indians.

As for the farmers issue, currently the majority of farms are still owned by white Afrikaners. Farms are easy targets for roving bands of thugs due to the lack of police coverage and response. So farms are easy targets, owned primarily by whites, does not take much to do the math. The United Nations (ya I know) did a study and found there is NO white Genocide ongoing in South Africa.

As for stat's, directly from the South African Police (I worked with them). to date 80+% of all crimes including murder, rape and assault are black on black. In 4 years I had one attempt of someone breaking into my house and at no time was I in danger.

Excuse me is this post seems to wander but hey on a time line to finish this. The majority of those really shitty townships you see with open sewers and no water, filled with tin shacks are actually filled with African immigrants both legal and illegal from surrounding counties such as Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Somalia and Nigeria. Those are the people who are subject to the most crime and are continued victims of xenophobic attacks. You will never see on the news fantastic Villages like Pongola or townships like Western Mamalodi or Parts of Atteridgeville with there nice brick homes, running water and sewage systems.

Are there issues in SA? of course, crime is insane just about all my friends black and white have been subject to some sort of crime. That being said I loved every minute I was there and may even retire back in SA. What needs to be done is for the local black population to get over the ANC as some mighty saviour and start looking at which party is best for the country. IMHO the only way for South Africa to get back on track is to vote in the Democratic Alliance who have held power in the Western Cape which has always been the best run State.

Two final notes on SA. During the Funeral for Nelson Mandela (I was there) at FNB Stadium, when Jacob Zuma walked on stage he was booed by the sea of black Africans filling the seats, FW De Klerk was cheered. And finally a young black fellow of Xhosa background named Stanley told one day at work that in his opinion life was easier under Apartheid, he had no vote or freedom of movement but he never went hunger and always had a roof over his head.

Go to South Africa take in the sights, I put on over 30,000k on my motorcycle down there, drank beer in shebeens in townships, did game drives though parks and thoroughly enjoyed the rainbow nation. Do not base you opinion on media, Facebook or you tube. Read expat forums on people who have moved and retired there. Always remember the extreme white will scream genocide and the extreme black with scream kill the boer.

Everyone have a beer and enjoy your weekend

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

but SA was actually forced out of the Commonwealth in the 60s :

No, your own link proves your own lie.

$1:

The white minority rule government of South Africa had first withdrawn from the Commonwealth in 1961, after being pressured by member states over its apartheid policies.

It just boggles the mind how you just lie and lie and lie and lie on this board.

You are the only liar on this board and your mind boggles because you’re a fucking moron with no education and no capacity to learn

Let me try in vain to educate you again:

$1:

Wednesday, 15 March 1961

On 5 October 1960 a referendum of White voters was held to decide whether South Africa should become a republic. The result showed that 52% were in favour of a republic. In accordance with his promise that the republic would remain within the British Commonwealth, Dr H.F. Verwoerd, South African prime minister, went to London in March 1961 to give the Conference of Commonwealth Prime Ministers formal notice that South Africa was going to change from a monarchy to a republic, and at the same time to request permission to remain within the British Commonwealth.

This request was strongly opposed by African States, joined by India and Canada, not because of the proposed constitutional change, but because of South Africa's policy of apartheid When it was clear that his request would not be granted, Verwoerd withdrew South Africa's application for membership of the British Commonwealth "in the interests of South Africa's honour and dignity".


References:
• Muller, C.F.J. (ed)(1981). Five Hundred years: a history of South Africa; 3rd rev. ed., Pretoria: Academica.
• Continuity Africa, South Africa Becomes a Republic and Withdraws from the Commonwealth, from ContinuityAfrica, [online], Available at continuityafrica.com [Accessed: 17 February 2014]
Last updated : 14-Mar-2017

http://www.sahistory.org.za/dated-event ... mmonwealth

It must be embarrassing to be so wrong so often but since you clearly have no sense of shame I doubt it bothers you at all

[Thanos]

Wolf1412 Wolf1412:

Everyone have a beer and enjoy your weekend

Good man!

[BeaverFever]

Wolf1412 Wolf1412:

Well do not comment much but this is an entertaining argument. Hate to say it but both of you are in fact correct and incorrect at the same time. Now do not take my word for it but I did live in Eastern Pretoria (Tshwane) for 4 years from 2012 until 16.

Have found that people that are not familiar with SA base all their knowledge on post/news/reports that are provided by the 10% at either end of the spectrum. That being the 10% black population that wants the whites out and the 10% white population that think they are fighting some sort of genocide.

The ANC took power in 94 under Mandela and things started out fine. He only completed one term as President and when he stood down is when all hell started to break loose. Since 94 the ANC has done nothing to improve infrastructure and currently all electric, water, sewage and roads are failing. When challenged on that point they will blame apartheid to this day yet have been in power for 24 years. Since Mandela the ANC is a body filled with nepotism, corruption and scandals. They enjoy keeping the black majority uneducated as it makes it easier to fool the people and stay in power. They fuck over the people then hours before elections head out in droves with gift boxes of maize and t-shirts to all the townships and amazingly are elected again.

The ANC also instituted BEE, Black Economic Empowerment which is used to continually allow uneducated and unskilled individuals to fill positions which had been filled by educated white people. Zuma himself only had a grade 3 education.

As for the White Boers the ones that you see in the new white townships, they are all from the bottom of the employment list with little or no education themselves. The educated white population still hold the majority of high end positions in the private sector. The next highest on the list are the Indians.

As for the farmers issue, currently the majority of farms are still owned by white Afrikaners. Farms are easy targets for roving bands of thugs due to the lack of police coverage and response. So farms are easy targets, owned primarily by whites, does not take much to do the math. The United Nations (ya I know) did a study and found there is NO white Genocide ongoing in South Africa.

As for stat's, directly from the South African Police (I worked with them). to date 80+% of all crimes including murder, rape and assault are black on black. In 4 years I had one attempt of someone breaking into my house and at no time was I in danger.

Excuse me is this post seems to wander but hey on a time line to finish this. The majority of those really shitty townships you see with open sewers and no water, filled with tin shacks are actually filled with African immigrants both legal and illegal from surrounding counties such as Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Somalia and Nigeria. Those are the people who are subject to the most crime and are continued victims of xenophobic attacks. You will never see on the news fantastic Villages like Pongola or townships like Western Mamalodi or Parts of Atteridgeville with there nice brick homes, running water and sewage systems.

Are there issues in SA? of course, crime is insane just about all my friends black and white have been subject to some sort of crime. That being said I loved every minute I was there and may even retire back in SA. What needs to be done is for the local black population to get over the ANC as some mighty saviour and start looking at which party is best for the country. IMHO the only way for South Africa to get back on track is to vote in the Democratic Alliance who have held power in the Western Cape which has always been the best run State.

Two final notes on SA. During the Funeral for Nelson Mandela (I was there) at FNB Stadium, when Jacob Zuma walked on stage he was booed by the sea of black Africans filling the seats, FW De Klerk was cheered. And finally a young black fellow of Xhosa background named Stanley told one day at work that in his opinion life was easier under Apartheid, he had no vote or freedom of movement but he never went hunger and always had a roof over his head.

Go to South Africa take in the sights, I put on over 30,000k on my motorcycle down there, drank beer in shebeens in townships, did game drives though parks and thoroughly enjoyed the rainbow nation. Do not base you opinion on media, Facebook or you tube. Read expat forums on people who have moved and retired there. Always remember the extreme white will scream genocide and the extreme black with scream kill the boer.

Everyone have a beer and enjoy your weekend

Thanks for the great post!

I have no doubt that the current government, especially under Zuma but probably before as well, is rife with incompetence and the zuma regime is especially known for corruption and its increasingly anti-democratic tendencies.

But for the 90% of the population who is non-white, the government was brutal and oppressive under white rule, denying them most services and economic opportunity so what really is the difference?

[Sunnyways]

Wolf1412 Wolf1412:

Well do not comment much but this is an entertaining argument. Hate to say it but both of you are in fact correct and incorrect at the same time. Now do not take my word for it but I did live in Eastern Pretoria (Tshwane) for 4 years from 2012 until 16.

Everyone have a beer and enjoy your weekend

My late wife was an Indian from Durban. 14 years ago we drove across the country from Cape Town. (The recent drought there has been a bit of a shocker.) I never saw so much wildlife. The birds were gorgeous and the desert was strikingly red. It was so hot I spent most of my time in the shade as still as the geckos. The diversity of climate and landscape was extraordinary.

Speaking of Tshwane, you must have heard this prank call?

https://funnyvids.co.za/view/surname-ch ... call/jO15K

Several of my South African friends here in Canada sound exactly like Mr. Pretorius.

I'm looking forward to warming my bones down there later this year and maybe even playing a round of golf at the Durban Country Club. I heard they’ve lowered their standards so I should get in.

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Verwoerd withdrew South Africa's application for membership of the British Commonwealth "in the interests of South Africa's honour and dignity".

Again, your own post verifies your own lie.

Leaving ≠ being kicked out


Pakistan was suspended, twice.
Fiji was suspended, twice.
Zimbabwe was suspended. After bring suspended, they officially left the Commonwealth.

South Africa was never kicked out.. they left.

This is again something you don't understand, because English is not your first language.

[martin14]

Wolf1412 Wolf1412:

As for the farmers issue, currently the majority of farms are still owned by white Afrikaners. Farms are easy targets for roving bands of thugs due to the lack of police coverage and response. So farms are easy targets, owned primarily by whites, does not take much to do the math.

It isn't 'just' the crime. It's not just robbery and theft. It's the brutality that goes with it.

Wolf1412 Wolf1412:

The United Nations (ya I know) did a study and found there is NO white Genocide ongoing in South Africa.

It took 20 years for the UN to declare Rwanda as a genocide. Jus' saying.

$1:

IMHO the only way for South Africa to get back on track is to vote in the Democratic Alliance who have held power in the Western Cape which has always been the best run State.

This is the same DA that has run Cape Town and the province for the last 10 years,
you know the Cape Town that has Day Zero coming ? (pushed back to July 9)

Yeah, ok. Give them power over the whole country. It'll be fine.

$1:

Always remember the extreme white will scream genocide and the extreme black with scream kill the boer.
Everyone have a beer and enjoy your weekend

I can appreciate that, but you do realize the legally elected government is now moving
ahead to change the Constitution in order to do the same things as Zimbabwe ?
You think this is no big deal ?

[N_Fiddledog]

Zoom over to the 14:40 minute mark. There's a Canadian connection. Spoiler: it won't make you proud.

[Wolf1412]

martin14 martin14:

Wolf1412 Wolf1412:

As for the farmers issue, currently the majority of farms are still owned by white Afrikaners. Farms are easy targets for roving bands of thugs due to the lack of police coverage and response. So farms are easy targets, owned primarily by whites, does not take much to do the math.

It isn't 'just' the crime. It's not just robbery and theft. It's the brutality that goes with it.

Totally agree with your point.

Wolf1412 Wolf1412:

The United Nations (ya I know) did a study and found there is NO white Genocide ongoing in South Africa.

It took 20 years for the UN to declare Rwanda as a genocide. Jus' saying.

OK but the UN Study is backed up by the Institute of Security Studies

$1:

IMHO the only way for South Africa to get back on track is to vote in the Democratic Alliance who have held power in the Western Cape which has always been the best run State.

This is the same DA that has run Cape Town and the province for the last 10 years,
you know the Cape Town that has Day Zero coming ? (pushed back to July 9)

Yeah, ok. Give them power over the whole country. It'll be fine.

Will disagree, again you read something I lived there. The DA is a Provincial Government in the Western Cape. Water issues being faced are a federal responsibility which remains the ANC. Like most, the ANC is responsible to provide federal funding to the provinces. If the DA is not provided this fund how are they to solve the problem.

$1:

Always remember the extreme white will scream genocide and the extreme black with scream kill the boer.
Everyone have a beer and enjoy your weekend

I can appreciate that, but you do realize the legally elected government is now moving
ahead to change the Constitution in order to do the same things as Zimbabwe ?
You think this is no big deal ?

I never said the issue was no big deal. I will wait to see how the new policy pans out. I will also continue to get my information from a reliable source, like my friend Tony who owns a farm North of Rustenberg in the Northern Province.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Verwoerd withdrew South Africa's application for membership of the British Commonwealth "in the interests of South Africa's honour and dignity".

Again, your own post verifies your own lie.

Leaving ≠ being kicked out


Pakistan was suspended, twice.
Fiji was suspended, twice.
Zimbabwe was suspended. After bring suspended, they officially left the Commonwealth.

South Africa was never kicked out.. they left.

This is again something you don't understand, because English is not your first language.

Think of all the times in your life you quit your job because your boss was going to fire you. I’m sure it’s happened to POS like you many times. Maybe that’s why you have to cling to the idea that the difference is meaningful.

Is English your first language?

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Maybe that’s why you have to cling to the idea that the difference is meaningful.

That is as close as you will ever get to admitting you were wrong.

The sliding from "IT'S LIKE THIS", to ' the difference doesn't matter'.


But it does matter, it is the difference between a lie, and the truth.


Just like your Thatcher/Mulroney/Regan conspiracy to get SA kicked out of
the Commonwealth. It never happened, because it was a lie. Posted by you.

$1:

Is English your first language?

Yes it is, and it does create problems when I speak French, Slovak, or Italian.
I also taught it, that's how I can recognize the comprehension failures that you have.

So, what is your first language ?

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Maybe that’s why you have to cling to the idea that the difference is meaningful.

That is as close as you will ever get to admitting you were wrong.

The sliding from "IT'S LIKE THIS", to ' the difference doesn't matter'.


But it does matter, it is the difference between a lie, and the truth.


Just like your Thatcher/Mulroney/Regan conspiracy to get SA kicked out of
the Commonwealth. It never happened, because it was a lie. Posted by you.

The point I was making that you’re too fucking stupid to understand is that apartheid SA was a pariah state and Reagan,Thatcher and Mulroney and the Commonwealth worked together to sanction SA in the 80s because of Aparthed. Apartheid was something the Commonwealth had long criticized SA for and were threatening to terminate their membership for before SA “jumped before it was pushed” . I think everyone can see here that you’re so desperate in this argument that you’ll find any reason to call someone a liar because ignorant people like you think that’s how you win a debate. Like if I said Jeffrey Dahmer was evil for murdering 18 people you’d call me a liar because he only murdered 17 people. You just reek of desperation and it’s really pathetic

But you know what is lie? Saying you witnessed something happen that didn’t happen, like when you swore you heard the radio reports of BLM members firing on hurricane rescuers and now no matter how many times I bring it up you don’t reply like thie lying coward you are.

$1:

Is English your first language?

Yes it is, and it does create problems when I speak French, Slovak, or Italian.
I also taught it, that's how I can recognize the comprehension failures that you have.

So, what is your first language ?[/quote]

It’s really rich for someone who writes at a highschool dropout level to question my English. Of course English is my first language. I feel really sorry for the ESL students who were conned into wasting their money at some sketchy second-rate school learning English from an ignorant admitted racist. But I guess that’s why you teach over there and not here where there are standards.