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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:12 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I agree Derby. Enforcement has just made it worse.


Whats worse is it makes it more dangerous for police and it costs police lives. People carrying large amounts of drugs for sale and facing a life in prison will do anything to get away including murder a cop.

Decriminalization would (hopefully) save lives.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:33 pm
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Any stats to back up that prohibition of narcotics has done nothing to curb use?

I find that hard to believe, mainly because you need a prescription to get most of these drugs and you can't get them from some guys garage like you could get the booze back in the day. It's not easy to get narcotics.


Those stats are hard to come by but what about drug use in countries that decriminalize it?

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html
$1:
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.


Of course if you want to look at a more North American model then all you have to do is look at the drug problems/rates of Canada, the USA, and Mexico. The harsher the drug law enforcement response the worse the situation.


Naturally, that doesn't take into account further education and awareness following the decriminalization of the drugs that probably had a effect on usage, rehab, etc. No doubt, however, that decriminalization has worked to some degree.

I also think we cannot lump all drugs into one category because they are drugs. Alcohol is not the same as cocaine and marijuana isn't the same as heroin. Some drugs are very, very addictive. I've been addicted to prescription drugs accidentally after dental surgery and it's really, really brutal.

I think the Portugal example is actually a farce when you look at it. It's not "decriminalized" as people are still being arrested for possession and they can opt for treatment or incarceration.

So the only difference I can see is that people have the option to have treatment for their problem. Keep in mind, they still note that drug use is a problem and not just something you take a hands off approach to and let people do whatever the hell they want.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:45 pm
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Naturally, that doesn't take into account further education and awareness following the decriminalization of the drugs that probably had a effect on usage, rehab, etc. No doubt, however, that decriminalization has worked to some degree.


True. Education is always key whether its sex education to minimize teen pregnancies or alcohol-driving education to limit DUIs its all the same. Still you wanted some sort of evidence support legalization and diminished usage.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I also think we cannot lump all drugs into one category because they are drugs. Alcohol is not the same as cocaine and marijuana isn't the same as heroin. Some drugs are very, very addictive. I've been addicted to prescription drugs accidentally after dental surgery and it's really, really brutal.


Just like gun advocates not expecting sniper rifles to be fully legal like corkscrews drug advocates can see the wisdom in drawing some line.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I think the Portugal example is actually a farce when you look at it. It's not "decriminalized" as people are still being arrested for possession and they can opt for treatment or incarceration.

So the only difference I can see is that people have the option to have treatment for their problem. Keep in mind, they still note that drug use is a problem and not just something you take a hands off approach to and let people do whatever the hell they want.


Well, thats why they call it decriminalization rather then legalization. Still you'll probably find out that only heavier drugs even warrant the therapy option with the lighter drugs simply getting a pass.

They are always going to say drug use is a problem. Its to politically volatile to say other wise but the fact is that its not a greater problem then alcohol and far less health problematic then tobacco.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:41 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:


I also think we cannot lump all drugs into one category because they are drugs. Alcohol is not the same as cocaine and marijuana isn't the same as heroin. Some drugs are very, very addictive. I've been addicted to prescription drugs accidentally after dental surgery and it's really, really brutal.


Absolutely, listing pot in the same category as coke and heroin is just ridiculous. Altho it may suprise you to hear that alcohol and cocaine react on the exact same parts of the brain. Blew my mind when I saw that.
There was a show that was showing brain scans of people on various substances(the more "popular" ones). All of them affected different areas of the brain than the others, except booze and coke.
I only mentioned that to show the irony in current anti-drug laws.
And I know what you mean about coming off of narcotics, it's an ugly scene. But, have you ever seen a serious alcohlic drying out? It's a pretty scary sight too. The total body shakes, the hallucinations, the vomiting. It's not a whole lot better than a junkie trying to get clean.

Wow, did this ever go off topic :lol:


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