[Blue_Nose]

Well, since Shep didn't take the opportunity

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

come and check out my ass Donny

I thought you said it was the navy boys that were into that sort of thing?

[PENATRATOR]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Well, since Shep didn't take the opportunity

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

come and check out my ass Donny

I thought you said it was the navy boys that were into that sort of thing?

Hey man, I didn't say hit it!

[PENATRATOR]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

So Pen, how does it feel to be running around shouting, 'Death to the saracens!! God is our King!? Are those red crosses you have painted on your tunics clashing with the cammo? After all, according to the 'experts' you are over there to prove that our version of God is better than theirs.

We don't all beleive in god Shep. Things I have seen people do to others in the name of religion over my career certainly makes me skeptical of a "god" who would allow this to go on.

[Donny_Brasco]

So I guess we have a little bit of a conundrum then.

1) We can’t convince the tree public to support a war if they know our real objective – which is to maintain the status quo in the Middle East and Asia, support Israel, impose and support dictators and exploit the people and their resources…

2) We therefore need to lie to the public and tell them we are fighting a religious war and that the terrorists have declared jihad against us because they hate Hockey Night in Canada, draft beer and democracy – they will blow themselves up, stone women to death and steal babies out of incubators in need be, and that Islam teaches hate and that any Muslim could be the leader of a sleeper cell waiting to kill our fine white Canadian families in their sleep.

And to sum it all up: an attack on us on Canadian soil would sell this holy war to many of the tree hugging Canadian public, scare the average citizen into action and achieve the support we need to win this war. (Seems like I’ve seen this movie before)

I’m all for it. Just let me know when and where the attack is going to take place so I can stay well away.

Religion and Martyrdom are just the propaganda tools used by the other side, same thing as we do here with the news and speeches about them hating us because of our fine golf courses, casinos and spas.

Let’s get serious here and win this war by being honest with ourselves. Losing means we lose our rights to exploit this region of the earth and its people, losing means higher prices for oil, losing means our bargaining chips on the world stage diminish or disappear. As a modern western country we rely on the cheap labour of the third world, we need to stabilize these areas with pro-western governments that are willing to act against the best interests of their people for our sake.

So really, losing does mean the end of draft beer as we know it. Lets get those fuckers!

[PENATRATOR]

You and Streaker can have whatever opinon you choose, I take no issue with the way you present it because unlike him you are not anti-troops (at least this is how I percieve your words) Keep in mind that it is not just fine white people who are would be targets of these people. One thing I have noted and I mentioned itearlier is that since we have been engaged in the heartland of terrorist training camps (again, I speak of Afghanistan), attacks against Western civilians are down, as a soldier, I find that a good thing.

With this comment:
2) We therefore need to lie to the public and tell them we are fighting a religious war and that the terrorists have declared jihad against us because they hate Hockey Night in Canada, draft beer and democracy – they will blow themselves up, stone women to death and steal babies out of incubators in need be, and that Islam teaches hate and that any Muslim could be the leader of a sleeper cell waiting to kill our fine white Canadian families in their sleep.

I see no need to lie, if anything I wish the Canadian public would hear about the young boy and his grandfather who were strung up by the Taliban during my tour, for the terrible crime of having US currency in their possesion. The woman who had her family butchered because they were wearing western style winter clothes so as not to have to go barefoot in the sub-zero weather that hits Kandahar, and the 2 children (that I know of) that froze to death in the Zhari distric this past Feb, who had no warm clothes, maybe due to fear of being butchered for wearing a nice warm toque or socks that came from the west. I am really not arguing with you here Don, just voicing what my experiences have been in that shithole.

[romanP]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

I see no need to lie, if anything I wish the Canadian public would hear about the young boy and his grandfather who were strung up by the Taliban during my tour, for the terrible crime of having US currency in their possesion. The woman who had her family butchered because they were wearing western style winter clothes so as not to have to go barefoot in the sub-zero weather that hits Kandahar, and the 2 children (that I know of) that froze to death in the Zhari distric this past Feb, who had no warm clothes, maybe due to fear of being butchered for wearing a nice warm toque or socks that came from the west. I am really not arguing with you here Don, just voicing what my experiences have been in that shithole.

This, of course, has nothing at all do with Islam and everything to do with training children from a young age that violence against foreigners or anyone associating with foreigners is acceptable, using the Quran as a bludgeon to keep these children in line with the most vile interpretations of Islam.

It's not much different from the attitudes prevalent in the American deep south.

[hwacker]

romanP romanP:

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

I see no need to lie, if anything I wish the Canadian public would hear about the young boy and his grandfather who were strung up by the Taliban during my tour, for the terrible crime of having US currency in their possesion. The woman who had her family butchered because they were wearing western style winter clothes so as not to have to go barefoot in the sub-zero weather that hits Kandahar, and the 2 children (that I know of) that froze to death in the Zhari distric this past Feb, who had no warm clothes, maybe due to fear of being butchered for wearing a nice warm toque or socks that came from the west. I am really not arguing with you here Don, just voicing what my experiences have been in that shithole.

This, of course, has nothing at all do with Islam and everything to do with training children from a young age that violence against foreigners or anyone associating with foreigners is acceptable, using the Quran as a bludgeon to keep these children in line with the most vile interpretations of Islam.

It's not much different from the attitudes prevalent in the American deep south.

People like you should not have the internet. Ignorant *uck.

[ziggy]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Ziggy, have you actually read the Islam Bible? The Quran or w/e it was called. It's racist against Jews, it preaches hate about other religions and more slandering of the jews. It sais Islam is the only true religion, and that everybody that believes in something else is a infidel and all infidels should be killed. A lot in there just preaches pure bullshit hate, and violence.

I agree that Christians can be fanatics, and do the same thing. However I fail to see any modern terrorist groups or racism groups still active that belong to that religion. Islam has always had swarms of them, and they still do today.

Nowhere in the Christian bible to I see it calling jews monkeys, or whatever the racist insult that was used to describe what jews are in there bible or does it say that everybody who doesn't believe in there religion should be killed. During the Medieval Periods with the whole crusades. That was Christian fanatics acting up what they thought was 'right'. By spreading there religion, and taking the whole city and all that jazz. Which is over so many years ago. Visit any Muslim Country, and they are as medieval as it still comes now a days. With there law system, to there point of views and there actions.

Yes I have read lots of the Quran,have relatives working and living in Qatar and did lose 2 kids to shock and awe.
So maybe I look at all this a bit different then most.

If Iraq was such a big threat why not just fucking nuke them? end of problem.

[hwacker]

ziggy ziggy:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Ziggy, have you actually read the Islam Bible? The Quran or w/e it was called. It's racist against Jews, it preaches hate about other religions and more slandering of the jews. It sais Islam is the only true religion, and that everybody that believes in something else is a infidel and all infidels should be killed. A lot in there just preaches pure bullshit hate, and violence.

I agree that Christians can be fanatics, and do the same thing. However I fail to see any modern terrorist groups or racism groups still active that belong to that religion. Islam has always had swarms of them, and they still do today.

Nowhere in the Christian bible to I see it calling jews monkeys, or whatever the racist insult that was used to describe what jews are in there bible or does it say that everybody who doesn't believe in there religion should be killed. During the Medieval Periods with the whole crusades. That was Christian fanatics acting up what they thought was 'right'. By spreading there religion, and taking the whole city and all that jazz. Which is over so many years ago. Visit any Muslim Country, and they are as medieval as it still comes now a days. With there law system, to there point of views and there actions.

Yes I have read lots of the Quran,have relatives working and living in Qatar and did lose 2 kids to shock and awe.
So maybe I look at all this a bit different then most.

If Iraq was such a big threat why not just fucking nuke them? end of problem.

If they could have gotten the entire Baathist in one city like Hiroshima I guarantee you they would have.

[romanP]

hwacker hwacker:

romanP romanP:

It's not much different from the attitudes prevalent in the American deep south.

People like you should not have the internet. Ignorant *uck.

Why, because I'm not a pigheaded liar like you?

[hwacker]

romanP romanP:

hwacker hwacker:

romanP romanP:

It's not much different from the attitudes prevalent in the American deep south.

People like you should not have the internet. Ignorant *uck.

Why, because I'm not a pigheaded liar like you?

Have you looked in the mirror lately?

[Donny_Brasco]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

You and Streaker can have whatever opinon you choose, I take no issue with the way you present it because unlike him you are not anti-troops (at least this is how I percieve your words) Keep in mind that it is not just fine white people who are would be targets of these people. One thing I have noted and I mentioned itearlier is that since we have been engaged in the heartland of terrorist training camps (again, I speak of Afghanistan), attacks against Western civilians are down, as a soldier, I find that a good thing.

With this comment:
2) We therefore need to lie to the public and tell them we are fighting a religious war and that the terrorists have declared jihad against us because they hate Hockey Night in Canada, draft beer and democracy – they will blow themselves up, stone women to death and steal babies out of incubators in need be, and that Islam teaches hate and that any Muslim could be the leader of a sleeper cell waiting to kill our fine white Canadian families in their sleep.

I see no need to lie, if anything I wish the Canadian public would hear about the young boy and his grandfather who were strung up by the Taliban during my tour, for the terrible crime of having US currency in their possesion. The woman who had her family butchered because they were wearing western style winter clothes so as not to have to go barefoot in the sub-zero weather that hits Kandahar, and the 2 children (that I know of) that froze to death in the Zhari distric this past Feb, who had no warm clothes, maybe due to fear of being butchered for wearing a nice warm toque or socks that came from the west. I am really not arguing with you here Don, just voicing what my experiences have been in that shithole.

We know the children we shot in Afghanistan died because of human error on both sides.

You can bet the Taliban spin it another way.

That is why when you tell me these stories I am wondering what spin is on them. How do you know those facts? Why would you assume that humans would rather freeze to death them wear warm clothes? Maybe they were in possession if US currency because they had stole it or received payment from westerners for information.

Lots of "maybe", lots of spin. The facts are these little incidents have very little to do with the real reason for war. They do however, given the correct spin, sway alot of people one way or the other. Our military and the Americans spend millions and millions on getting the right spin on every event. We can expect that our enemies do the same.

Civilian deaths, especially children's, are a fact of war. We should expect that our people will kill children from time to time because war is not precise and we are human and make judgement calls. But if we want to continue to exercise our influence in other regions of the world against the will of the people there then lets cut the crap and get it done.

[Freakinoldguy]

romanP romanP:

Talking about "appeasement" has no place in this so-called "war on terror." There are no national boundaries being threatened or nations being conquered. There are no treaties involved, period. No one is giving in to any demands. Just because we aren't running around screaming that the sky is falling does not mean that nothing is being done. Bringing up Neville Chamberlain is, in fact, totally irrellevant, unless you can point to some sort of concession that has been given to any particular terrorist group just because they asked for it.

Yassar Arafat and PLO recieved concessions from Israel in the form of land for the Palestinians in return for a promise not to carry out any attacks on Israel.

Sounds like a treaty to me.

$1:

"Though the PLO claims that it recognizes Israel's right to exist and wants to found a state only in Gaza and the West Bank, its official stationery, bearing its official emblem, betrays its true goals. As PLO officials have indicated repeatedly, the organization has designs on conquering all of Israel. These aims have been incorporated into the PLO Charter and the PLO's "phased plan" for Israel's destruction".

Much like Neville Chamberlin giving Czechoslovakia to the Germans for the promise of "peace in out time", Israel has discovered that you can make all the concessions you want but they're wothless unless the people you make them with intend to keep them.

[ShepherdsDog]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

So Pen, how does it feel to be running around shouting, 'Death to the saracens!! God is our King!? Are those red crosses you have painted on your tunics clashing with the cammo? After all, according to the 'experts' you are over there to prove that our version of God is better than theirs.

We don't all beleive in god Shep. Things I have seen people do to others in the name of religion over my career certainly makes me skeptical of a "god" who would allow this to go on.

My point exactly. This is not a religious conflict, from the West's perspective, as some numb nuts would have us believe. NATO soldiers come from all religious traditions and beliefs, this isn't about imposing Christianity on Afghanistan.

Human history is painted with blood. If not religion, we find some other reason.....usually money, land and power to war over. It has been many centuries since the West has fought a war based solely, or even largely, on religion and even then the underlying causes were political rather than theological. Hell, it can even be argued that the Crusades were more about securing lucrative trade routes(religious shrines were big money generators) than saving Jerusalem from the Saracen.

$1:

my career certainly makes me skeptical of a "god" who would allow this to go on.

I've always been a big believer in free will and man's abuse of it. We have the choice to hold out a hand our fellow man or woman, or we have the choice to turn that helping hand into a fist and strike down our brother or sister. The choice is ours to make, right or wrong. And, if you believe, there will be repercussions for the wrong choices made in life.

[Blue_Nose]

beefcake beefcake:

laugh now!canada couldnt handle a two clown circus let a loan a minor terrorist attack!

A two clown circus is giving a loan to terrorists?