[PJB]

You guys seem to be having a good time arguing about numbers and tonnage and all that but you seem to be forgetting the names and numbers of all of the Canadian sailors that died in the 100 year history of the ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY. Americans do not realize or respect those little Corvettes or Frigates that escorted those massive convoys through the deadly waters of the north Atlantic to supply Britain. Of course this was before a big chunk of their overly impressive, yet useless, navy got blown out of the water at Pearl Harbour.

Americans look at any war only from the part where they either started it or joined in on it. Nothing prior or after.

[Gunnair]

PJB PJB:

You guys seem to be having a good time arguing about numbers and tonnage and all that but you seem to be forgetting the names and numbers of all of the Canadian sailors that died in the 100 year history of the ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY. Americans do not realize or respect those little Corvettes or Frigates that escorted those massive convoys through the deadly waters of the north Atlantic to supply Britain. Of course this was before a big chunk of their overly impressive, yet useless, navy got blown out of the water at Pearl Harbour.

Americans look at any war only from the part where they either started it or joined in on it. Nothing prior or after.

That's rather unfair. We concentrate on our part, they concentrate on theirs. That's how it works.

[BartSimpson]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Well put. Most of us had more time going astern than he's got going ahead.

I'm guessing the fellow in question has had plenty of 'stern time'.

[BartSimpson]

PJB PJB:

You guys seem to be having a good time arguing about numbers and tonnage and all that but you seem to be forgetting the names and numbers of all of the Canadian sailors that died in the 100 year history of the ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY. Americans do not realize or respect those little Corvettes or Frigates that escorted those massive convoys through the deadly waters of the north Atlantic to supply Britain. Of course this was before a big chunk of their overly impressive, yet useless, navy got blown out of the water at Pearl Harbour.

Hey there, fellow, I'm the one saying that that Royal Canadian Navy of yore that you speak of here is the one that today's CF Maritime needs to exemplify - and that's not possible when the Maritime is lacking in some key areas. That's no disrespect to the men of 70 years ago nor is it a disrespect to the men who are charged with defending one of the world's largest coastlines with a littoral navy (that sounds nicer than 'coast guard' but it's still the same thing) that can't venture out from under land based air cover or go into deep water without a NATO carrier providing cover.

Sorry, but if a shitstorm brews up and the USA rolls over and plays turtle again like it did before WW2 (entirely possible the way Obama keeps shitting on our allies) what's Canada going to do? Seriously, the UK has two active carriers and I will guarantee you for damn sure they ain't lending one to you.

Time to buck up and BUILD a navy, don't just call it a navy. Oh, and pissing at me won't give you one fucking flight deck and it won't give you a sub that can patrol under the ice.

$1:

Americans look at any war only from the part where they either started it or joined in on it. Nothing prior or after.

Actually, the problem Europeans (and some Canadians) have is that we DO look at wars prior to when we get into them. President Wilson told Britain and France that the Versailles Treaty was a clusterfuck waiting to happen and when that clusterfuck finally happened most Americans wanted no part of a mess that Britain and France were 100% responsible for. Then we get bitched at for not joining a war we tried to prevent 20 years before it started.

And then most Americans in WW2 still remembered the British and French wanting to use American boys for cannon fodder (like they did with Canadians, Aussies, and Kiwis) in fucking pointless bayonet charges against German machine guns in WW1. Fortunately, we had Black Jack Pershing who told Haig to go Foch himself.

Consequently we had far lower combat casualty rates than did the UK and France (and that's in the same time period when we were in the war) and we get bitched at for that, too. Imagine, we didn't do idiotic bayonet charges which caused the bulk of the Anglo-French casualties and we get bitched at. Um, sorry, but isn't the point to kill more of the enemy with your actions than your own soldiers? I guess us ignorant Americans just don't understand those wise old Europeans.

And now I criticize MY country for lowering our defenses and I'm saying you folks had better raise yours and I'm wrong for that, too?

Hey, if you want to pretend that you have a 'real' navy when it has no air cover then that puts your military thinking to state of the art...for 1924.

Good luck with that.

[angler57]

Being part of the US Army and Coast Guard, can say Heritage and History are very important to the services and its members.
When the Ike jackets (army) and 13 button bell bottoms were changed to Ho-Hum dress clothing, A part of our history was lost.
Why don't these fellas in Ottawa ask the Navy what they want to be named? These are the people doing the job. Not some flat-bottomed politico.

[angler57]

PJB PJB:

You guys seem to be having a good time arguing about numbers and tonnage and all that but you seem to be forgetting the names and numbers of all of the Canadian sailors that died in the 100 year history of the ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY. Americans do not realize or respect those little Corvettes or Frigates that escorted those massive convoys through the deadly waters of the north Atlantic to supply Britain. Of course this was before a big chunk of their overly impressive, yet useless, navy got blown out of the water at Pearl Harbour.

Americans look at any war only from the part where they either started it or joined in on it. Nothing prior or after.

===============================================================================
Sorry but you have NO IDEA of the subject you speak. A combined effort of Allies won the war.
Not the US, or Canada or Britian and many more, even the Russians.. All of us fighting together. You speak of conveys. Conveys made up of tough merchant seamen from all over the world. You need to talk to a fellow we know, now in a nursing home. He was just a common seaman.
But, much, much more. Had two ships sunk from under him. Nearly froze to death in the Alantic twice before rescue. Signed right back unto another ship as soon as dry.
Now, being from USA we do realize how important folks from everywhere were to winning the war.

[PENATRATOR]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Well put. Most of us had more time going astern than he's got going ahead.

I'm guessing the fellow in question has had plenty of 'stern time'.

Yeah, that's probably why our old "warrior" friend has been absent around here since his ridiculous comments, you know...he's been DEEP in he Shit

[PENATRATOR]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

PJB PJB:

You guys seem to be having a good time arguing about numbers and tonnage and all that but you seem to be forgetting the names and numbers of all of the Canadian sailors that died in the 100 year history of the ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY. Americans do not realize or respect those little Corvettes or Frigates that escorted those massive convoys through the deadly waters of the north Atlantic to supply Britain. Of course this was before a big chunk of their overly impressive, yet useless, navy got blown out of the water at Pearl Harbour.

Hey there, fellow, I'm the one saying that that Royal Canadian Navy of yore that you speak of here is the one that today's CF Maritime needs to exemplify - and that's not possible when the Maritime is lacking in some key areas. That's no disrespect to the men of 70 years ago nor is it a disrespect to the men who are charged with defending one of the world's largest coastlines with a littoral navy (that sounds nicer than 'coast guard' but it's still the same thing) that can't venture out from under land based air cover or go into deep water without a NATO carrier providing cover.

Sorry, but if a shitstorm brews up and the USA rolls over and plays turtle again like it did before WW2 (entirely possible the way Obama keeps shitting on our allies) what's Canada going to do? Seriously, the UK has two active carriers and I will guarantee you for damn sure they ain't lending one to you.

Time to buck up and BUILD a navy, don't just call it a navy. Oh, and pissing at me won't give you one fucking flight deck and it won't give you a sub that can patrol under the ice.

$1:

Americans look at any war only from the part where they either started it or joined in on it. Nothing prior or after.

Actually, the problem Europeans (and some Canadians) have is that we DO look at wars prior to when we get into them. President Wilson told Britain and France that the Versailles Treaty was a clusterfuck waiting to happen and when that clusterfuck finally happened most Americans wanted no part of a mess that Britain and France were 100% responsible for. Then we get bitched at for not joining a war we tried to prevent 20 years before it started.

And then most Americans in WW2 still remembered the British and French wanting to use American boys for cannon fodder (like they did with Canadians, Aussies, and Kiwis) in fucking pointless bayonet charges against German machine guns in WW1. Fortunately, we had Black Jack Pershing who told Haig to go Foch himself.

Consequently we had far lower combat casualty rates than did the UK and France (and that's in the same time period when we were in the war) and we get bitched at for that, too. Imagine, we didn't do idiotic bayonet charges which caused the bulk of the Anglo-French casualties and we get bitched at. Um, sorry, but isn't the point to kill more of the enemy with your actions than your own soldiers? I guess us ignorant Americans just don't understand those wise old Europeans.

And now I criticize MY country for lowering our defenses and I'm saying you folks had better raise yours and I'm wrong for that, too?

Hey, if you want to pretend that you have a 'real' navy when it has no air cover then that puts your military thinking to state of the art...for 1924.

Good luck with that.

Actually Bart, prior to the 1942 Dieppe raid when the Russian were whining for a second front to take the heat off of them by their former allies, the Nazis. Ike, who had not yet gone on to great things recommended landing 12 Divisions (which included pretty much the entire Canadian Army in England at the time)into France with no resupply plan, basically fight it out to the last man, sacrificing them in order to appease our Comrades to the East. I'd argue that if he'd been Supreme Allied Commander at that point of the War, and got his way, he would not of been for long after, and probably never been the Prez.
But unlike others, I realize you are in support of th "CF". just taking you to task, mentioning not just commonwealth Commanders were retatards.
If you ever want to read a book that will have you shaking your head, check out British Butchers and Bunglers of WWI http://www.amazon.com/British-Butchers- ... 0750901799

I have it, it is almost laugh out loud ridiculous, if not for the fact of the probable millions of kids who died because of the incompetence. The fucking allied Generals should have been tried for war crimes against their own troops IMO

[Gunnair]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Well put. Most of us had more time going astern than he's got going ahead.

I'm guessing the fellow in question has had plenty of 'stern time'.

Yeah, that's probably why our old "warrior" friend has been absent around here since his ridiculous comments, you know...he's been DEEP in he Shit

Nice, Pen.

The newb came in swinging, made a needlessly inflammatory post and you nailed him for it.

So be it.

I would not have thought cheerleading Bart as he childishly invokes the standard cliches that insult all of the service as being worthy of you.

[angler57]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Well put. Most of us had more time going astern than he's got going ahead.

I'm guessing the fellow in question has had plenty of 'stern time'.

===================================================
Yeah, that's probably why our old "warrior" friend has been absent around here since his ridiculous comments, you know...he's been DEEP in he Shit

===================================================

In regard to the final statement here;
Oh Really!!!! Sire; What an Astute and Definitive observation????
What splendid use of our shared language????
Said in jest of course!!!!

[BartSimpson]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Actually Bart, prior to the 1942 Dieppe raid when the Russian were whining for a second front to take the heat off of them by their former allies, the Nazis. Ike, who had not yet gone on to great things recommended landing 12 Divisions (which included pretty much the entire Canadian Army in England at the time)into France with no resupply plan, basically fight it out to the last man, sacrificing them in order to appease our Comrades to the East. I'd argue that if he'd been Supreme Allied Commander at that point of the War, and got his way, he would not of been for long after, and probably never been the Prez.

In fairness, Ike made that recommendation when it was not his decision to make. Hate to say, but REMFs like Ike was at the time have a habit of making textbook statements. To his credit, when Ike took coomand he gained a wholly different perspective and some years back (1989?) I had occasion to speak to Stephen Ambrose (who had worked for Ike) and he said that when D-Day went down Ike's staff had him on a defacto suicide watch. It was feared Ike would take ultimate responsibility had the landings failed. Cut the guy a little slack, I'd say he grasped the gravity of his decisions once they were his alone to make.

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

But unlike others, I realize you are in support of th "CF". just taking you to task, mentioning not just commonwealth Commanders were retatards.
If you ever want to read a book that will have you shaking your head, check out British Butchers and Bunglers of WWI http://www.amazon.com/British-Butchers- ... 0750901799

I have it, it is almost laugh out loud ridiculous, if not for the fact of the probable millions of kids who died because of the incompetence. The fucking allied Generals should have been tried for war crimes against their own troops IMO

Prior to 9/11 the US Naval War College had a brilliant paper online on this very topic and it went into condemnation of Americans who had followed the 'book' when fluid situations demanded innovation...and their conservative thinking cost lives.

I guess what I'm looking at here is that I think that Canada may well end up the guardian of North America in many respects and I'd like to see the CF ready for the challeneg before the Chinese eventually cruise their carrier off Vancouver Island.

[BartSimpson]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I would not have thought cheerleading Bart as he childishly invokes the standard cliches that insult all of the service as being worthy of you.

I say the same thing about the swabbies in the USN if it makes you feel any better. It's mostly good natured.

[angler57]

Side Bar; The evening before the invasion Ike hand wrote a note, to be released if the invasion failed. In it he took full blame for its failure.
His staff were keeping close track of him fearing he might take his own life if D-Day failed.
Any what is it called Monday night whatevering is easy to do in any instance.
Sadly any decision in many instances can result in death.
None of us were there. Are any of us her qualified to ever be out in these places of power and decision???? Not me for sure.

[PENATRATOR]

Making an additional childish crack in the same vein as Bart's childish crack towards the "vet" is considered cheerleading GNR?

I can make jokes about the Navy (if that is what you speak of) as I am more than qualified to do (make good natured fun of sailors)it than you would think (no I am not tooting my horn dude by any means, so please don't take it that way, but lighten up man, it's humour, it's been around in this manner directed at the anchor crankers for years)

Take this to PM if you want to discuss further

[EyeBrock]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Well put. Most of us had more time going astern than he's got going ahead.

I'm guessing the fellow in question has had plenty of 'stern time'.

Yeah, that's probably why our old "warrior" friend has been absent around here since his ridiculous comments, you know...he's been DEEP in he Shit

Nicely put.

He has been noticable by his absence. Plus it's 'pull up a sandbag and swing the light', not light the light.

Then again, someone so new being so, well disrespectful never bodes well.