[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Oh! Look!

Atlanta police shooting: Rayshard Brooks death declared homicide

Apparently shooting people while running away is not self defence.

Who knew?

When a US coroner calls a death a homicide all it means is that someone else caused the death.

It is NOT a ruling on guilt or innocence or whether or not the death was justifiable.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Oh! Look!

Atlanta police shooting: Rayshard Brooks death declared homicide

Apparently shooting people while running away is not self defence.

Who knew?

When a US coroner calls a death a homicide all it means is that someone else caused the death.

It is NOT a ruling on guilt or innocence or whether or not the death was justifiable.

I know. I am just set at "Asshole Level:Pro" today.

[BeaverFever]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You’re not understanding my point.

Im not defending the current system I’m saying the officers behaved appropriately given their system.

Maybe I would understand you better if you didn't make a point at the beginning of a sentence then contradict it at the end of the sentence, like you just did.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Those officers were required to attempt an arrest for DUI. Maybe that law should change maybe not. There are pros and cons to that. But nonetheless that’s the law now. Therefore it’s not unreasonable that they attempted to make an arrest.

I made no comment on the arrest, only that not everywhere requires an arrest. They don't require arrest because impaired driving is not a violent offense. I actually wrote earlier that the guy should not have resisted arrest, and it seemed strange given he appeared co-operative up till that point.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

On the second point again I’m not saying armed officers are the ones who should be responding to these calls but in Canada and the US the fact is that’s who does currently respond.

I agree. And in Britain, most don't carry guns. And they don't seem to have a great deal of problems unless there is a right wing protest.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I don’t think it takes any twists of logic to understand that a police officer should legitimately fear for their life or safety if someone is trying to render them unconscious or taser them. Doubly so if they have a gun that can be used against them. So yeah having a gun makes a person more at risk of having said gun used against them, whether you’re a op or a private citizen. Welcome to gun control 101

I also don't think it's unreasonable that if Police testify in court that a Taser is not lethal, and they are prevented from using lethal force in non-lethal situations, then shooting a guy in the back for a non-lethal act is murder. It's no the first time cops have been filmed shooting a person in the back unjustifiably.

The guy was perfectly polite and co-operative until the cuffs came out. I see no reason that if he wants to resist, you back off. He will be arrested, and there will be more cops involved and the will be much more serious charges than DUI.

But no one will get hurt. And this is a policy that requires no legislation.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Again I’ll reiterate that I’m not saying the people who respond to these calls SHOULD be armed officers Im just saying that’s how it is currently. If you Caleb were a police officer today you would be carrying a sidearm. Don’t tell me that if a suspect was about to taser you with your own taser that he just took from you, you would just let him do it and hope for the best rather than fire your weapon. That’s not believable

My experience as a serving police officer is limited, so I will not speculate. But what I do know about police training is that they believe they are in danger, and will react like that.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

So doe the fourth or fifth time I’ll say that I’m not saying policing doesn't need massive radical reform Im saying these officers seem to have behaved reasonably given the CURRENT situation and what’s CURRENTLY required of them.

Which is why they were instantly fired and the chief quit too?

Was he shot in the back? I thought he was shot in the front as he was pointing the taser

[DrCaleb]

Hard to say without sound, but he went down after firing the taser, while running away.

[bootlegga]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Was he shot in the back? I thought he was shot in the front as he was pointing the taser

All the media reports I've seen say he was shot in the back, but if you watch the end of the Wendy's video, you see he tries to fire the taser backwards at the cop chasing him.

Time stamp about 35 seconds of video here:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/us/raysh ... index.html

Based on that video, it looks like he tried to fire the Taser, then took a couple more steps and was shot in the back.

[Tricks]

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... story.html

$1:

Black Providence firefighter says he was racially profiled by cops while in uniform

That's a big yikes. That video is rough to watch, you can tell it fucked him up.

[Scape]

Ya, he was shot in the back and apparently lynching is now back in fashion:

[BartSimpson]

Tricks Tricks:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-providence-firefighter-terrell-paci-racial-profiling-20200606-w4nkjltrkvgypoqlrtlkqfg73q-story.html

$1:

Black Providence firefighter says he was racially profiled by cops while in uniform

That's a big yikes. That video is rough to watch, you can tell it fucked him up.

He's lucky the fuckers didn't kill him. I bet they walked away disappointed that they didn't get to kill the kid.

[Thanos]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Thanos Thanos:

This is where the concept of scaling back police duties is going overboard. DUI is a dangerous crime that kills people. It's not like taking the cops off of jaywalking busts.

Pulling the DUI over, yes it's dangerous and should be done by a cop.

But a guy parked in a lot who looks drunk? No. You could just have a bylaw guy and a tow truck. Administer the breath test, and call a cop to arrest him if it's warranted. But two cars, with guns and tasers? Overreaction.

Read the essay Boots posted. That ex-bastard makes it pretty clear that what he did day to day did not require an armed officer to respond.

I did. I wasn't surprised. I just don't see that rushing willy-nilly into a mass "decriminalization" of certain activities is that much of a solution. Take traffic law enforcement as one of them. What happens if you remove the cops from the roads? Libertarians and anarchists alike believe that freedom, lovely freedom! spontaneously erupts and everyone is happy. The problem with both libertarians and anarchists is their deluded view that there are only good people in the world, and there is not a negative to be spotted from eliminating the state from certain fields and sectors. They are, of course, completely wrong because in that 100% of humanity who are given unchecked freedom there's at least 30% of the mob who are selfish bastards or outright sociopaths who are going to take that freedom and use it to cause utter mayhem and get other people hurt and killed.

Back to the roads and streets then. Take the cops away and nightmare immediately bursts out. Non-stop racing everywhere, especially in residential areas. Playground and school zones become lethal to kids. Massive jump in those mowed down in crosswalks. Red lights? They don't fucking apply to me, man, because I'm FREE. Fifty years of safety improvements in auto manufacturing would be essentially wiped out just from the deaths caused by the crazies on wheels. This is North America where toxic individualism is at the worst it's ever been. It's not Germany with the no-speed-limit autobahns and with a society that isn't reckless to it's fucking core the way Americans and too many Canadians generally behave most of the time. Give people on this continent more freedom or, more specifically, the wrong kind of freedom and you're initiating a disaster.

Reform the police. Demilitarize them as well, both in terms of some of the equipment they have and their "everyone not in blue is our enemy" attitude. Hire legions of social workers and negotiators to show up with the cops at tense situations. Decriminalize ALL drugs so that unless they've committed a robbery or violence the drug user never gets sent to prison. And a bunch of other things too just to ratchet down the tension by a few dozen degrees. But take the police out of the field altogether? Never. It would be chaos and anyone who knows their history absolutely knows that from chaos only the worst things happen and only the very worst people emerge triumphant.

[Scape]

More detailed video.

[Thanos]

As anyone above the age of 20 should know, there's consequences to band-wagon jumping. Detroit saw persistent large spikes in crime since 2014 when police defunding at the city level happened, and some residents say there should be more cops not less:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/detroit-defu ... nsequences

$1:

But in Detroit, gutting police department budgets has helped a downward spiral.

“We don't have enough police as it is,” said Rochelle Jones, a working mother of two. “People are acting the fool out here, and now you know the police aren't going to be coming around this summer with all that's going on. So what are the children supposed to do.”

During 80 days of the coronavirus lockdown, 18 children were shot in Detroit.

In the city, there have been 100 homicides so far this year, a 25 percent spike over last year, and there have been 271 non-fatal shootings, an increase of 30 percent.

Despite what some really desperately want to believe, there isn't a cop in a KKK robe doing Hitler salutes to the other po-po while telling the inner city locals to go on an endless rampage and treat each other as disposable sacks of meat. The cops are certainly fucked up in a lot of ways but they definitely are not responsible for everything gone wrong in the US.

[BeaverFever]

Thanos Thanos:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Thanos Thanos:

This is where the concept of scaling back police duties is going overboard. DUI is a dangerous crime that kills people. It's not like taking the cops off of jaywalking busts.

Pulling the DUI over, yes it's dangerous and should be done by a cop.

But a guy parked in a lot who looks drunk? No. You could just have a bylaw guy and a tow truck. Administer the breath test, and call a cop to arrest him if it's warranted. But two cars, with guns and tasers? Overreaction.

Read the essay Boots posted. That ex-bastard makes it pretty clear that what he did day to day did not require an armed officer to respond.

I did. I wasn't surprised. I just don't see that rushing willy-nilly into a mass "decriminalization" of certain activities is that much of a solution. Take traffic law enforcement as one of them. What happens if you remove the cops from the roads? Libertarians and anarchists alike believe that freedom, lovely freedom! spontaneously erupts and everyone is happy. The problem with both libertarians and anarchists is their deluded view that there are only good people in the world, and there is not a negative to be spotted from eliminating the state from certain fields and sectors. They are, of course, completely wrong because in that 100% of humanity who are given unchecked freedom there's at least 30% of the mob who are selfish bastards or outright sociopaths who are going to take that freedom and use it to cause utter mayhem and get other people hurt and killed.

Back to the roads and streets then. Take the cops away and nightmare immediately bursts out. Non-stop racing everywhere, especially in residential areas. Playground and school zones become lethal to kids. Massive jump in those mowed down in crosswalks. Red lights? They don't fucking apply to me, man, because I'm FREE. Fifty years of safety improvements in auto manufacturing would be essentially wiped out just from the deaths caused by the crazies on wheels. This is North America where toxic individualism is at the worst it's ever been. It's not Germany with the no-speed-limit autobahns and with a society that isn't reckless to it's fucking core the way Americans and too many Canadians generally behave most of the time. Give people on this continent more freedom or, more specifically, the wrong kind of freedom and you're initiating a disaster.

Reform the police. Demilitarize them as well, both in terms of some of the equipment they have and their "everyone not in blue is our enemy" attitude. Hire legions of social workers and negotiators to show up with the cops at tense situations. Decriminalize ALL drugs so that unless they've committed a robbery or violence the drug user never gets sent to prison. And a bunch of other things too just to ratchet down the tension by a few dozen degrees. But take the police out of the field altogether? Never. It would be chaos and anyone who knows their history absolutely knows that from chaos only the worst things happen and only the very worst people emerge triumphant.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that traffic laws go unenforced What they saying is the people who enforce traffic laws and attend fender-benders, deL with homeless/crazy people, noise complaints etc which are 99% of police activities, should not be the armed police force that’s primarily trained to kick ass and arrest people. It should be a different force altogether with different skills and outlook.

You can still have A small armed police force to respond to active crimes in progress but no more hassling citizens minding their own business trying to sniff out “undetected” crime like drug possession

[Tricks]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Tricks Tricks:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-providence-firefighter-terrell-paci-racial-profiling-20200606-w4nkjltrkvgypoqlrtlkqfg73q-story.html

$1:

Black Providence firefighter says he was racially profiled by cops while in uniform

That's a big yikes. That video is rough to watch, you can tell it fucked him up.

He's lucky the fuckers didn't kill him. I bet they walked away disappointed that they didn't get to kill the kid.

I'm sure he shares your view that he could have easily been killed.

[Scape]

[BeaverFever]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Was he shot in the back? I thought he was shot in the front as he was pointing the taser

All the media reports I've seen say he was shot in the back, but if you watch the end of the Wendy's video, you see he tries to fire the taser backwards at the cop chasing him.

Time stamp about 35 seconds of video here:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/us/raysh ... index.html

Based on that video, it looks like he tried to fire the Taser, then took a couple more steps and was shot in the back.

Honestly I think this one is too close to call to blame the officers themselves. A better system where armed officers aren’t the ones dealing with these situations in the first place would have helped.