[fifeboy]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Brenda Brenda:

Maybe you had the luxury to take 3 months off in summer, but I do not. Most do not. Bosses do not usually like that idea and neither do land lords or clients/customers.
We get 10 or 15 days off. Per year.

Teachers also don't get paid to mark papers at night, go to school in the evening to xerox, put out the yearbook, coach volleyball, run the chess club, tutor students , etc, etc , etc . They just do it.

It's a SALARIED position, not an hourly wage job so yes, you're still getting paid for that stuff. Lots of people working salary jobs and making less than teachers put in far more than 40 hours a week, and do it without all the extra days off.

And you are right, it is and that's why teachers do it. The volleyball and chess club and lunchtime tutoring, not so much. And just so you know, in Saskatchewan teachers are paid by the day worked, not by the year. No pay for summer holidays. Can't speak for other provinces.

And it's two months in the summer Brenda, not two. Unless BC is different!

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

It's a tactic that the teachers unions use! It's not illegal and it does help to remind people what ALL happens in schools, about your volunteering--- don't get me wrong here--- it's a good thing. I suspect they denied your request more for insurance reasons than for what they said.

It's not illegal but it doesn't make it right. We know what happens in school. We all went to school once. We also don't need to be 'reminded' every few years.

fifeboy fifeboy:

And you are right, it is and that's why teachers do it. The volleyball and chess club and lunchtime tutoring, not so much. And just so you know, in Saskatchewan teachers are paid by the day worked, not by the year. No pay for summer holidays. Can't speak for other provinces.

And it's two months in the summer Brenda, not two. Unless BC is different!

Teachers, for the most part, get paid for their "volunteer" time.

I think Brenda is referring to 3 months being the cumulative total of holidays with Christmas, March Break, etc.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

fifeboy fifeboy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Teachers also don't get paid to mark papers at night, go to school in the evening to xerox, put out the yearbook, coach volleyball, run the chess club, tutor students , etc, etc , etc . They just do it.

It's a SALARIED position, not an hourly wage job so yes, you're still getting paid for that stuff. Lots of people working salary jobs and making less than teachers put in far more than 40 hours a week, and do it without all the extra days off.

And you are right, it is and that's why teachers do it. The volleyball and chess club and lunchtime tutoring, not so much. And just so you know, in Saskatchewan teachers are paid by the day worked, not by the year. No pay for summer holidays. Can't speak for other provinces.

And that is reflected in the annual pay of teachers in Saskatchewan.

As for BC, this is rather interesting:

$1:

The union didn’t like the media citing the Statscan report on educator salaries because it included administrators in their averages, which made it look like teachers here made more than they did. However, the BCTF doesn’t mind using the same survey’s remuneration figures when it comes to student funding – even though the “per educator” numbers it uses includes the same administrator salaries it objected to being used for other reasons.

Also, the other graph to which it refers does not demonstrate the average increase in remuneration of all “teachers” in Canada – as the union said – but rather all educators, including administrators. But because it supports the BCTF’s overarching wage narrative, the union doesn’t mind doing exactly what it accused the government of doing with the salary figure: misrepresenting what the survey actually says.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... e17309702/

[andyt]

I'm confused. How does including higher paid administrators in per educator student funding make it look like funding is lower than if those higher paid administrators were removed from the data?

This is typical of Gary Mason - swallow and repeat the numbers the govt puts out, then only attack the teacher's numbers.

And the numbers are irrelevant at this time. As has been pointed out repeatedly, teachers and govt are very close on wages now, a gap that a good mediator could easily find common ground on. It's about class size and composition, where the govt has not budged.

Never trust a journalist's numbers. They all seem to have flunked math and are too lazy to analyse numbers themselves, just swallow and repeat.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

I'm confused. How does including higher paid administrators in per educator student funding make it look like funding is lower than if those higher paid administrators were removed from the data?

[andyt]

You too, eh? Per educator funding goes up if you include higher paid administrators. Subtracting out those administrators would lower per educator funding, making the union's case stronger.

$1:

For instance, one graph shows that B.C. is last in the country in educator remuneration per student.

However, the BCTF doesn’t mind using the same survey’s remuneration figures when it comes to student funding – even though the “per educator” numbers it uses includes the same administrator salaries it objected to being used for other reasons.

So which is it, per student or per educator? Remove the administrators from funding per student and the number would be much lower, since you're not counting as many people and those people are higher paid. If it's funding per educator, the number would still be lower if you remove the admin since again, they are higher paid. Gary is very unclear here, and unfortunately does not give us the raw figures so we can judge for ourselves.

The teachers may be using data that includes administrators, which they had objected to, but using those data reduces rather than increases the teacher's claim they are underpaid.

$1:

Also, the other graph to which it refers does not demonstrate the average increase in remuneration of all “teachers” in Canada – as the union said – but rather all educators, including administrators. But because it supports the BCTF’s overarching wage narrative, the union doesn’t mind doing exactly what it accused the government of doing with the salary figure: misrepresenting what the survey actually says.

This is interesting, since nowhere does he show that administrators got lower increases than teachers. Maybe the administrators got higher percentage increases than the teachers, as we've seen so often in govt and crown corps, where management gets much better increases than unionized workers.

[Zipperfish]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Lots of people working salary jobs and making less than teachers put in far more than 40 hours a week, and do it without all the extra days off.

Maybe they should consider unionizing?

[ShepherdsDog]

Summer for many teachers is not two months off. Many use this time to further their education. We're also running a summer camp program here(math and literacy disguised) Three sessions, each a week long. It's also the teachers that run the extra curricular activities that parents used to run. Now the fucking lazy ass parents all seem to think that it's the responsibility of teachers to keep their kids occupied and entertained after school hours and on weekends.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

fifeboy fifeboy:

It's a tactic that the teachers unions use! It's not illegal and it does help to remind people what ALL happens in schools, about your volunteering--- don't get me wrong here--- it's a good thing. I suspect they denied your request more for insurance reasons than for what they said.

It's not illegal but it doesn't make it right. We know what happens in school. We all went to school once. We also don't need to be 'reminded' every few years.

fifeboy fifeboy:

And you are right, it is and that's why teachers do it. The volleyball and chess club and lunchtime tutoring, not so much. And just so you know, in Saskatchewan teachers are paid by the day worked, not by the year. No pay for summer holidays. Can't speak for other provinces.

And it's two months in the summer Brenda, not two. Unless BC is different!

Teachers, for the most part, get paid for their "volunteer" time.

I think Brenda is referring to 3 months being the cumulative total of holidays with Christmas, March Break, etc.

Paid for extracurricular activities? When. Where? I had better apply for my back pay then.

[fifeboy]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

fifeboy fifeboy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

It's a SALARIED position, not an hourly wage job so yes, you're still getting paid for that stuff. Lots of people working salary jobs and making less than teachers put in far more than 40 hours a week, and do it without all the extra days off.

And you are right, it is and that's why teachers do it. The volleyball and chess club and lunchtime tutoring, not so much. And just so you know, in Saskatchewan teachers are paid by the day worked, not by the year. No pay for summer holidays. Can't speak for other provinces.

And that is reflected in the annual pay of teachers in Saskatchewan.

As for BC, this is rather interesting:

$1:

The union didn’t like the media citing the Statscan report on educator salaries because it included administrators in their averages, which made it look like teachers here made more than they did. However, the BCTF doesn’t mind using the same survey’s remuneration figures when it comes to student funding – even though the “per educator” numbers it uses includes the same administrator salaries it objected to being used for other reasons.

Also, the other graph to which it refers does not demonstrate the average increase in remuneration of all “teachers” in Canada – as the union said – but rather all educators, including administrators. But because it supports the BCTF’s overarching wage narrative, the union doesn’t mind doing exactly what it accused the government of doing with the salary figure: misrepresenting what the survey actually says.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... e17309702/

To quote On The Ice How is that reflected in annual wage?

[fifeboy]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Summer for many teachers is not two months off. Many use this time to further their education. We're also running a summer camp program here(math and literacy disguised) Three sessions, each a week long. It's also the teachers that run the extra curricular activities that parents used to run. Now the fucking lazy ass parents all seem to think that it's the responsibility of teachers to keep their kids occupied and entertained after school hours and on weekends.

Yeah, but what does firsthand experience have to do with any of this? Just because you work all those extra hours without pay doesn't mean you can have an opinion.

[OnTheIce]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Paid for extracurricular activities? When. Where? I had better apply for my back pay then.

Salaried employee, right? Most school activities during my school years were right after school and some during school...like track and field.

We're often told that a teacher's day isn't done at 3:15-3:30 so we can fairly assume that the day should run to 4:30-5pm for most teachers which includes the time where a lot of those activities take place....even better, it happens right in the workplace.

While you may be 'volunteering' your time, that time is being paid for by the taxpayer and isn't coming out of your pocket.

Add to that, you guys only work ~10 months of the year and have the flexibility to leave at 3-3:30 if you desire.

Teachers are well paid and I have no problem with that, but the private sector is tired of teachers and the "poor us" attitude considering their job, pay, vacation, benefits and pension.

[OnTheIce]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

We're also running a summer camp program here(math and literacy disguised) Three sessions, each a week long.

Are you being paid?

[ShepherdsDog]

nothing extra on top of my regular salary. I opted to spread my pay over bi-weekly payments for 12 months rather than ten. The only extra money I have is to buy supplies, as it was/is strictly a volunteer program.

[OnTheIce]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

nothing extra on top of my regular salary. I opted to spread my pay over bi-weekly payments for 12 months rather than ten. The only extra money I have is to buy supplies, as it was/is strictly a volunteer program.

That's great!