One in 10 Canadian children live in poverty

Of course they have to bring race into it. Either Indians are people or not, make up your damn mind!

The flaw I see with the minimum wage increase that noone seems to address is: If minimum wages goes up, doesn't that mean the cost of living will go up with it? Most places where we buy food or goods pay minimum wage, if minimum wage was to increase by 13% (depending what the wage is now) wouldn't that mean the price of food and goods would increase by 13% as well?

in many provinces, minimum wage is only paid to a small percentage of the work force. I doubt that my costs would go up.

These things are objective, When my son was born 10 years ago the poverty line was under 30k per year, I made 25k, but we weren't hungry and still had the necessities of life.
What is the accepted poverty line at right now?
Poverty is trgic and can lead to problems but it's too often an excuse for bad parenting or crime, I don't buy it.

In Quebec, only 0.25% of the workforce earns minimum wage (9$/h). Of that, 80% are students.

Increasing the minimum wage is NOT the solution at all: you create inflation and increase unemployement in the group of person you want to help. There is no minimum wage in the "socialist" scandinavian countries.

Yeah but unfortunately we live a different world than Scandinavia, they have us beat in so many indicators.

Theres no GOVERNMENT minimum wage but the workforce is highly unionized and wages are often bargained for at the INDUSTRY SECTOR level (eg the entire steel industry bargaining for wages with union(s) representing all steel workers). Interesting example is given

Plus, their social safety net makes our own look like a cobweb in comparison and there are fewer services they have to pay for out of pocket.

Business DO try to pass on their costs to the customer whenever the market allows it, but theres an upside to increasing the minimum wage. Others have already mentioned the fact that full time min wage workers are few so the economic impact of a wage increase will not be as significant, but other factors are that that an increase may result in increased productivity, less employee turnover and less unemployment as min wage jobs become more valuable to the people who work them and more attractive to the unemployed. In addition, workers are also consumers so increased wages mean more consumer dollars being spent in the local economy, much of which is often spent and the workers place of employment in certain sectors like retail.

In addition, the tax burden is spread more evenly, however slight that may be.

The scandinavians have it right, with things like govt funded day care, timesharing, vacations galore etc but youll probably have to move there to see anything like that in your lifetime, unfortunately.

I agree with proculation that increasing the minimum wage is not the solution to solving the problem.The Canadian government should establish centers for emergency aid and reserve some funds to help the poor cope up with the disastrous results of poverty as this poverty may be brought by increasingly inflational terms of prices of goods.
Als teaching people on air not overspend is something the government should consider on that part of the country concerned.

There was the plan to "eradicate" child poverty by the year 2000, it was called "Target 2000". In 1996 there was a National Conference in Ottawa, I was able to attend, as a delegate representing the Children's Aid Society of Metro Toronto, some of the delegates included the Honourable David Dingwall the then Minister of Health and The Honourable Roy Romanow the then Premier of Saskatchewan, the Right Honourable Romeo LeBlanc the then Governor General, and a whole slew of other high ranking government officials, there was a lot of tough talk, but in the years after very little action. If we want to address the child poverty issue we need to tackle the entire poverty issue. there needs to be a comprehensive social system, something that will help these people up, I don't know how we can properly help these people up short of a massive shift in society, and the way people view them selves and their role in it.
But is good that Child Poverty is back in to the light. Perhaps we can effect some real change.

Of course they do, it's common sense. Businesses are not around to create jobs or provide services, they're there to make money. If a company or business has its costs increased, it'll create the prices, rent, etc to cover the expense.



To a majority of workers, no doubt, because most people do not work at minimum wage jobs. BUT, to franchises, small businesses, and retail stores...it'd be a huge impact. Businesses, like let's say your local McDonalds, usually hire a large number of students and those without the skills/training/education to get a better job. On top of the 3-4 people at the cash registers, they usually have a good number of people actually..."cooking", those who clean, those who work the drive thru. Etc.

Now, if let's say minimum wage is increased to $11. Guess what those franchise restaurants, stores, and small business are going to do? Cut their staff, or increase their prices. The cost of living goes up, and most people who don't work at a minimum wage job grumble about how expensive things are getting, but their wages haven't increased.

So what will this do? Basically nothing. Those children in poverty will STILL be in poverty because the cost of living went up along with their parents' paycheck. That's assuming they're not already unemployed or making more than minimum wage to begin with.



Um. No. A majority of minimum wage jobs are, as Proc stated, filled by students. Students don't stay in minimum wage jobs when they find something better. There will be no productivity increase nor a decrease in employee turnover because jobs like McDonalds are usually just extra spending money for those students, and not the wage their family is living on (barring teenage parents from this assumption)


But the prices of those consumer goods will go up because retail, small businesses, and franchises are the companies who PAY minimum wage to begin with.

I call myself a "jobs activist" and have thought about these issues for 19 years now. I advocate tightening the labour market to Alberta levels. In particular this improves conditions at the bottom. Inflation has been manageable. In the City of Toronto the child poverty rate in the last census was 31.7% while in Grande Pairie in northern Alberta it's only 7.4% (5.4% after taxes). Certainly the hot economy of Alberta pre-recession is a major reason. In these times of monster deficits you don't have the money to spend on child poverty but in a few years the labour markets will recover and help. Tightening the labour markets in the main cities of Canada entails getting immigration right: at the right time, in the right place and at the right numbers. The present program is just a national quota that was set in 1993.

Well, Im not arguing that there will be NO effect on prices from a wage increase, but its not a dollar-for-dollar effect. A wage increase of 10% may only result in a price increase of 2% in certain sectors so there is still a net gain for the workers. Most goods and services are not so reliant on minimum wage labour that a price increase is necessary and many sectors dare not reliant on minimum wage labour at all so there will be no effect. In many cases, the price is inflexible due to global markets and so the employer cant pass on the costs. And franchise companies like McDonalds tend to price strategically on a national scale and do such a high volume of business that they wouldnt cut staff. In addition, the franchise has standards of so many kitchen staff, etc that local owners can not easily override. Also, because their competition is also hit with the same costs, there would be no need to cut staff. People are not going to stop drinking coffee or eating fast food because the price went up slightly.

As for the attractiveness of the job, its true. The greater the difference between the minmum wage and welfare, the more people are likely to get off welfare and work while the number of minumum wage workers considering going on welfare would decrease because it would such a big step down in their quality of life. People dont work out of some sense of civic duty or obligation to please bosses. They work because its a means to buy things. The more things they can buy, the more valuable that work is and the more disruptive unemployment is.

I would agree that probably most min wage workers are part-time or temp workers, whether they are students or not is another question. But many part-time workers are looking for full-time and cant find it, or have a child or dependent at home that prevents them from working full-time. Part of this problem can be addressed by the welfare state (ie daycare, child tax benefit, other allowances) but the burden to taxpayers can be reduced if employment is more profitable. Creating more full-time jobs is a start, but better-paying jobs is also part of the solution.

Wow! Long time no see! Hope things are good Llama!

I have to disagree again. The sectors that will most likely be affected by a price increase are sectors that are essential (for the most part) to the Canadian consumer. If Canadian supermarkets and grocery stores raise their price 2% to cover the forced 10% pay hike that the government made mandatory, that would mean that the entire Canadian populace will see a cost of living increase, while only a small percentage receives a pay increase (those who are making minimum wage in the first place). The reliance on cheap, minimum wage labor for retail should not be underestimated.



Most, sure. Industries that rely on long term labor do not use minimum wage labor due to the cost of training and the value of experience. However, stocking shelves at Walmart does not require experience nor that much training, thus why the low wage they receive and the labor they attract (students).

Retail industries, like supermarkets, grocery stores, small mom & pop stores, and food service industries rely on minimum wage labor. The goods and services they provide are used by all Canadians, rich and poor, and a price increase on food and basic goods will hurt the poor much more than it will the middle or upper classes



Incorrect. The commodity price of let's say, an orange is the same, sure. But unless you're buying your oranges from Florida through an import/export company, this doesn't matter. The fact is, you buy your oranges through retail stores, which have their added cost of labor, transportation, capital, and profit. If the cost of labor goes up, they'll just increase the price of said orange to cover the new expense.

Any farmers, for example, that still use manual labor to harvest their crops (I believe tomatoes, cabbage, lettuce still need manual labor, just for possible Canadian examples) the added labor cost of the manual labor will just make farmers move away from manual labor crops to machine picked crops, due to their higher expense of labor but stagnant income, thus removing even more jobs for those laborers.

Commodity prices are based on global supply and demand, no doubt, but commodity prices aren't the only factor for the price of the foodstuffs and consumer products you might see at the grocery store.



But once again, if you raise the minimum wage of a majority of their workforce, the McDonalds Canadian headquarters will increase the prices of every single one of their products to make up for the lost profits. If they don't, franchise owners (as in the entrepreneurs that might own one or two McDonalds restaurants) will have to cut staff make their business venture worthwhile. If they don't, the opportunity cost of running a McDonalds franchise store will become too high and they'll probably move into another venture.



You're arguing two points. You're saying that corporations who rely on franchises won't increase the price because all of their competition are facing the new cost, but then you're saying that there won't be a decline in customers if the price increases.

I'm saying that either the price of the Big Mac will go up to make up for the loss in profits from an increased minimum wage, or, if the price does not increase, franchise owners will cut some staff.

If, let's say, corporations do increase the price of their retail goods or services slightly to make up for the cost. Let's say it's just an extra nickel for a $1 product (a dime for a two dollar product, etc), so even though the cost of living increase will be small for a singular product (Four litres of milk goes from 4.29 now to 4.50), the price increase for all of those goods will negate any effect a minimum wage increase might have for the poor, EXCEPT now the middle and upper class will be faced with the added burden of these new costs, without having their own wages increased.



This I can agree with, because unless the government increases welfare payments to make up for the higher prices of consumer goods, there will be a greater difference between what people working minimum wage can get with their income, and what people on welfare can get with their stipend. That being said, I think the pressure from various activist groups and the NDP would pressure the government to increase welfare payments instead of having the effect you're stating.



The part I disagree with is that increasing minimum wage will result in better paid jobs. Sure, the paycheck is larger, but so will be the costs of buying products at retail stores, thus negating any real growth. I'd much rather have the government encourage and stimulate job growth and creation, because there will be (hopefully) more and better paying jobs created for those searching for work (including myself)

I dont know of many essential services like grocery markets that pay minimum wages. Most around here pay 12-14 per hour for part time, and high teens for full time.

I guess it might affect the cost of my McBurger, or my 7/11 visits but I could tolerate that.

$8.50 to start with, $10 after a year here.
Never full time, no benefits.

And did I mention I was told during an interview, that since it would be my first Canadian job, he could pay me $6/hr?
That was the moment I told him to shove it up his ass and go fuck himself.